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Thread: RedC/SBP Poll

  1. #71
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    Re: RedC/SBP Poll

    There's no point in comparing between differing opinion polls from different newspapers/research companies.

    The only valid way to track opinion via the RedC/SBP opinion polls on Lisbon is to compare this one with previous RedC/SBP Lisbon polls.

    On that basis, the 'No' side have gained 62.5% of the DKs since the last RedC/SBP Lisbon poll.

    However, they needed 65% or more of the previous DKs to gain a majority (i.e. 65% + of 34% DKs at last RedC/SBP poll).

    On the basis of this poll, the 'No' side will need to gain at least 66.5% of current DKs to gain a majority (50.29%).

    Basically, as the SBP headline more or less says it's still all to play for, although there's more work for the 'No' side to do.

    Turnout will be another major factor (given the Nice I experience, perhaps THE major factor) by the end of this campaign.

    The 'Yes' side was too complacent during Nice I to ensure a good 'Yes' vote turnout.

    That complacency is not evident in this campaign.
    'It would actually give me the greatest of pleasure watching non-compliant taxpayers going to jail. That's the kind of person I am.' Bertie Ahern, 1993.

  2. #72
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    Re: RedC/SBP Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by nicenin
    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach
    Quote Originally Posted by baldur0300
    Quote Originally Posted by kerrynorth
    Sunday Times Libertas poll:
    Yes 33% No 23%.
    Only 1/3rd heard of Libertas of which 3/4th had an unfavouourable opinion.
    It shows higher no votes among Farmers and FG voters with No voters the more committed to voting. There is no date as to when it was carried out but was before the RedC/SBP poll.
    I would suggest that's deserving of its own thread KN.
    If this is just another micropoll of 500 voters then it's not going to be very accurate. Remember the recent Indo poll that had SF on 2%.

    What is the sample size?

    SF doesn't get 23% of the vote so many people are voting no in spite of dislike of some of the figures on the no side. They recognise independence is more important than personalities in a referendum campaign.

    You also need to remember that Michael McDowell was not exactly Mr.Popularity but 80% voted for his referendum on Citizenship.
    FT can you remember what the polls were predicting in the citizenship referendum in the weeks prior?

    all the mainstream media was calling it 50/50, too close to call. right up to the day of the referendum

    then turned out to be 80% in favour

    the moral of the story? peopl lie to pollsters if its politically incorrect to give the honest answer.

  3. #73
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    Re: RedC/SBP Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach
    2/3rds of Labour voters voted no to Nice in 2002 so let's get that straight for a start.
    No, they didn't. 2/3rds of those Labour voters that actually voted voted No to Nice 1 in 2002. Lots of others didn't turn out.
    "Elite - a small superior group; esp one that has a power out of proportion to its size." (Oxford English Dictionary)

    The majority cannot therefore be the elite.

  4. #74
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    Re: RedC/SBP Poll

    Is there a break down on support for Lisbon by party support?
    We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.

  5. #75
    Politics.ie Member FutureTaoiseach's Avatar
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    Re: RedC/SBP Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by hiding behind a poster
    Quote Originally Posted by FutureTaoiseach
    2/3rds of Labour voters voted no to Nice in 2002 so let's get that straight for a start.
    No, they didn't. 2/3rds of those Labour voters that actually voted voted No to Nice 1 in 2002. Lots of others didn't turn out.
    Well if you are going to interpret statistics like that, then you might as well say that FG's real level of support in 2007 wasn't 27.1% but rather was 27.1% of those who turned out = 18%. The yes side only like to use those sorts of stats when referring to the no votes in EU referenda, yet get all ******************************ly if you try to apply it to their/their parties supporters.

    Quote Originally Posted by returning officer
    Is there a break down on support for Lisbon by party support?
    Here is what the SBP is is saying:

    The intensive campaigning by the new Taoiseach Brian Cowen, who has risked his political honeymoon on the success of the referendum, is bearing fruit with Fianna Fáil voters who now favour the treaty by a huge margin. For the first time, an absolute majority of Fianna Fáil voters say they will support the treaty.

    However, despite an active Fine Gael campaign and the appeal by party leader Enda Kenny to ‘‘put the country first’’, Fine Gael voters are evenly divided between the Yes and No side. This may be explained by many voters identifying the referendum as a proposal from the government and, therefore, something to be opposed.

    They may also be turned off by exactly what is enthusing Fianna Fáil voters - a desire to back Cowen in his first test as Taoiseach. Whatever the reason, the Fine Gael campaign is failing, as yet, to convince its own voters. The party’s postering campaign - dedicated to promoting party figures who are calling for a Yes vote - isn’t bringing it out. Not yet, anyway.

    This illustrates a deeper flaw in such a politically-based campaign. All parties believe that if they can get ‘‘their’’ voters out, the proposal will be passed. And it’s certainly true that if voters followed the requests of the parties they voted for at the general election, the proposal would be passed by a massive majority.

    But fewer voters nowadays regard themselves as Fine Gael or Fianna Fáil voters for life, always voting the party ticket, always following the party line.

    Polls and academic research have confirmed the growing number of these ‘‘vote-switchers’’ - middle ground voters who move their votes from party to party, eschewing traditional party loyalties.

    While we still sometimes think of the public in terms of large voting blocks - about 40 per cent of them Fianna Fáilers, about 28 per cent Fine Gaelers, and about 10 per cent Labour voters and so on - in actual fact, the real picture appears to be much more fragmented than that.

    Throw in an increasingly anti-political culture and it’s clear that such voters will not be convinced simply by appeals to party loyalty. They must be convinced, and that’s why campaigns matter.

    The evidence of the past two weeks of campaigning is that the No side is doing a slightly better job of convincing undecideds than the Yes side. That is the danger for the government and for Brussels in these poll figures today.

    A look at Labour voters further illustrates the point. Though the party has been consistently and vocally pro-Lisbon, has a high-profile MEP, a former leader who is heading up one of the civil society groups campaigning for the treaty, and a leader who is using his Yes campaign to introduce himself to the public, the party’s voters are split, and marginally against the treaty.

    Campaigns matter. The No campaign - sometimes contradictory, sometimes content to wilfully ignore its warnings in previous campaigns, but always energetic and committed - has had the better of this past fortnight. Instead of being an achilles heel, its diversity has been a strength. Two weeks ago, it looked as if the No momentum was gone. Now that’s not so clear.

  6. #76
    Politics.ie Regular dotski_w_'s Avatar
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    Re: RedC/SBP Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by constitutionus
    Quote Originally Posted by nicenin

    FT can you remember what the polls were predicting in the citizenship referendum in the weeks prior?

    all the mainstream media was calling it 50/50, too close to call. right up to the day of the referendum

    then turned out to be 80% in favour

    the moral of the story? peopl lie to pollsters if its politically incorrect to give the honest answer.
    Will you stop telling that lie? I've already demonstrated to you that it's a total fiction. I know you're one of the more dishonest NO campaigners here (and there's competition!) but you've been caught out on this one and keep repeating it.

    viewtopic.php?f=172&t=34467&p=1137800#p1137800

    Quote Originally Posted by dotski_w_
    Quote Originally Posted by constitutionus
    the citizenship referendum.

    all the fecking vox pops and polls tracking that said it was too close to call
    Still as accurate as ever, I see ....! My memory was tha tthe polls were consistently saying a big margin for yes, usually around 2-to-1, and on the day the undecideds went with the winning side (as they usually do) and a quick look at the RTE site agrees.


    23rd May 30% lead (69% of decided voters)
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0523/citizenship.html
    [quote:knutwldr]
    The poll shows 54% of voters in favour of the measure; 24% opposed; while 22% say they don't know how they will vote.
    1st June 20% lead (62% of decided voters)
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0601/euroelection.html

    [quote:knutwldr]In the citizenship referendum, 53% said they would vote in favour, 33% would vote against and 14% said they did not know.
    5th June 25% lead (65% of decided voters)
    http://www.rte.ie/news/2004/0605/euroelection.html
    In the Citizenship Referendum, the 'Yes' side has a clear majority of 54% while 29% say they will vote against and 17% are undecided.
    [/quote:knutwldr][/quote:knutwldr]

    i.e. they consistently showed a 20-30% lead and about 2-to-1 among declared voters, and on the day the bandwagon saw it pass by even more, passing by 79 to 21%. It has already demonstrated to you that it is untrue to say it was being called 50/50 by all the mainstream media. If you can't support your arguments with the truth, well at least use lies that haven't been knocked down already, will ya?!
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  7. #77
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    Re: RedC/SBP Poll

    "all the mainstream media was calling it 50/50, too close to call. right up to the day of the referendum"

    I think there is some truth in that--the poster is not referring to opinion polls.

    I have a vivid memory of John Waters predicting a 4 to 1 victory for the NO side.

    I had admired him up till then, since then I consider him a fool.

    I don't have the resources or the interest to go trawling thru the media of that year, but my memory is that at least the margin of NO victory was a huge shock to the media.

    Some of them are still in denial about it, but then again we have posters here who have yet to accept that result.

  8. #78
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    Re: RedC/SBP Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by twtone
    "all the mainstream media was calling it 50/50, too close to call. right up to the day of the referendum"

    I think there is some truth in that--the poster is not referring to opinion polls.

    I have a vivid memory of John Waters predicting a 4 to 1 victory for the NO side.

    I had admired him up till then, since then I consider him a fool.

    I don't have the resources or the interest to go trawling thru the media of that year, but my memory is that at least the margin of NO victory was a huge shock to the media.

    Some of them are still in denial about it, but then again we have posters here who have yet to accept that result.
    He was talking about polls, he was reply to a Q re the polls, and tried to prove that
    peopl lie to pollsters if its politically incorrect to give the honest answer.
    Took me about 5 minutes to find those links, you can hit them if you think I'm mis-quoting (you'll note that I give not just the figures but also the RTE reporting of them). Alternatively you could accept that what I'm saying is true, and what CONstitunious has claimed is at best mis-recollection.
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