Ireland loses more power by Lisbon than previously thought

[brio910]

Many groups been going round saying Ireland gives up veto in 33 areas and moves to QMV.

Thanks to ibis on other site for this, this is list of moves to QMV given by EU info website.

There are over 50 areas where VETO is handed over by Ireland if Lisbon is passed.

Hand over your veto, kiss hope of democratically determining your future goodbye.
Laws can then be imposed on you against your will by people you did not elect.


New QMV areas
by ibis on Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:57 pm

Finally, the full list of QMV areas, as provided by the Europe Direct service:

List of the existing legal bases moving from unanimity to qualified majority voting:

EU Treaty:

(1) Initiatives of the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and
Security Policy relating to the CFSP at the request of the European Council
(article 15b EU treaty)
(2) Common Security and Defence Policy: statute, seat and operational rules of the Armaments Agency (article 28D§2 EU treaty)

FEU Treaty

(3) Freedom of establishment, access to activities as self-employed persons,
involving amendment of the principles laid down by law in at least one Member
State (article 47§2 FEU treaty)
(4) Administrative cooperation in the area of freedom, security and justice (article
61G FEU treaty)
(5) Border checks (article 62 FEU treaty)
(6) Asylum (article 63 FEU treaty)
(7) Immigration (article 69a FEU treaty)
( Incentive measures in the field of crime prevention (article 69C traité FUE)
(9) Eurojust – structure, operation, field of action and tasks (article 69D FEU treaty)
(10) Non-operational police cooperation (article 69F FEU treaty)
(11) Europol – structure, operation, field of action and tasks (article 69G FEU treaty)
(12) "Derogations" in the field of transport (now absorbed by the common transport policy) (article 71§2 FEU treaty)
(13) Amendment to certain provisions in the Statute of the European System of
Central Banks (article 107§3 FEU treaty)
(14) Measures in the field of culture (article151 FEU treaty)
(15) Definition of the tasks and objectives of the Structural Funds and the Cohesion Fund (article 161 FEU treaty)
(16) Council Presidencies – decision of the European Council (article 201b FEU
treaty)
(17) Court of Justice – establishment of specialised courts (article 225a FEU treaty)
(1 Court of Justice – amendment to the provisions of the Statute, with the exception of the statute of judges and advocates general and the language regime (article 245 FEU treaty)
(19) Appointment of the members of the Executive Board of the ECB – decision of
the European Council (article 245b FEU treaty)
(20) Mechanisms for control of the Commission's exercise of implementing powers
(replacing comitology) (article 249C FEU treaty)

Qualified majority voting accompanied by supplementary mechanisms (Emergency brake)

(21) Freedom of movement for workers, social security benefits (article 42 FEU
treaty)
(22) Judicial cooperation in criminal matters (article 69A FEU treaty)
(23) Approximation of criminal legislation, offences and sanctions, possibly
enhanced cooperation (article 69B FEU treaty)

List of the new legal bases requiring qualified majority voting

EU Treaty

(24) Election, by the European Council, of the President of the European Council
(article 9B§5 EU treaty)
(25) Appointment by the European Council of the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy (article 9E§1 EU treaty)
(26) Financial provisions in CFSP - procedures for setting up and financing the startup fund (article 28 EU treaty)
(27) Establishment of permanent structured cooperation in the area of defence (article 28E EU treaty)
(2 Admission of a Member State to the permanent structured cooperation
arrangement in the area of defence (article 28E EU treaty)
(29) Suspension of a Member State from the permanent structured cooperation
arrangement in the area of defence (article 28E EU treaty)
(30) Agreement for the withdrawal of a Member State (article 49A EU treaty)


FUE Treaty

(31) Principles and conditions for the functioning of services of general economic
interest (article 16 FEU treaty)
(32) Measures to secure diplomatic and consular protection (article 20 FEU treaty)
(33) Citizens’ initiative for the tabling of a European law (article 21 FEU treaty FUE)
(34) Arrangements for a mutual evaluation mechanism of the implementation of the
Union policies in the area of freedom, security and justice (article 61C FEU
treaty)
(35) Intellectual property rights and centralised schemes (article 97a FEU treaty )
(36) Member States whose currency is the euro, common position and unified
representation on the international scene (article 115C FEU treaty)
(37) Sport (article 149 FEU treaty)
(3 Space policy (article 172a FEU treaty)
(39) Energy (article 176A FEU treaty)2
(40) Tourism (article 176B FEU treaty)
(41) Civil protection (article 176C FEU treaty)3
(42) Administrative cooperation (article 176D FEU treaty)
(43) Urgent financial assistance to third countries (article 188I FEU treaty)
(44) Humanitarian aid (article 188J FEU treaty)4
(45) Arrangements for the implementation by the Union of the solidarity clause in
case of terrorist attack or natural disaster, where this decision has no defence
implications (article 188R§3 FEU treaty)
(46) List of Council configurations (article 201b FEU treaty)
(47) Operating rules and appointment of the members of the panel set up in order to give an opinion on candidates' suitability to perform the duties of Judge and
Advocate-General of the Court of Justice before their appointment (article 224a
FEU treaty)
(4 Administration of the European Union (article 254a FEU treaty)5
(49) Revision of the rules governing the nature and composition of the Committee of the Regions and the Economic and Social Committee (article 256a FEU treaty)
(50) Implementing measures for the system of own resources (article 269 FEU treaty)

Particular cases
In the three cases mentioned below, the current treaties provide for a super qualified majority. The Treaty of Lisbon provides for the “ordinary” qualified majority, i.e. that applicable to acts adopted on a proposal from the Commission (even though in this instance the act is adopted on a recommendation from the Commission).
(1) Infringement of the Broad Economic Policy Guidelines (BEPGs) or jeopardising
of the functioning of economic and monetary union (EMU) (article 99 FEU
treaty)
(2) Establishment of the existence of an economic deficit (article 104§6 FEU treaty)
(3) Measures to tackle an excessive deficit (article 104§13 FEU treaty)


Notes
Note that most of the measures in the area of energy are at present adopted on the basis of provisions which already require QMV (Art. 95 EC, Art. 175 EC).

Note that measures in the area of civil protection are at present adopted on the basis of provisions which already require QMV (Art. 175 EC).

Note that measures in the area of humanitarian aid are at present adopted on the basis of provisions which already require QMV (Art. 179 EC).

ibis



It's part of the Treaty. The link I gave sends me to Europe Direct, which is a service the EU provides where you can ask them direct questions. I asked them what new QMV areas were in the Treaty, and got back a PDF, which is dated 19.12.2007, and which I have faithfully copied here!

The link should look like this: http://www.europedirect.ie/

http://machinenation.forumakers.com/the ... s-t126.htm

[ibis]

Many groups been going round saying Ireland gives up veto in 33 areas and moves to QMV.

Thanks to ibis on other site for this, this is list of moves to QMV given by EU info website.

There are over 50 areas where VETO is handed over by Ireland if Lisbon is passed.

Hand over your veto, kind hope of democratically determining your future goodbye.
Laws can then be imposed on you against your will by people you did not elect.

Indeed, the number of new QMV areas cited range from 33-34 (FF) to 68 (Libertas, SF) to 105 (OSF). The 34 is based on the list above, but excludes those areas on which ireland has an opt-out. It may also involve taking items like these:

(28) Admission of a Member State to the permanent structured cooperation
arrangement in the area of defence (article 28E EU treaty)
(29) Suspension of a Member State from the permanent structured cooperation
arrangement in the area of defence (article 28E EU treaty)

and considering them as one item - rules covering participation in the permanent structured cooperation
arrangement in the area of defence (which also doesn't apply to Ireland).

No idea where 60, or 68, or 105, come from.

[Helium Three]

... rules covering participation in the permanent structured cooperation
arrangement in the area of defence (which also doesn't apply to Ireland).

Source?

[Catalpa]

That list is more than enough reason to vote NO!

Why in blazes name do we need all this top heavy micro management for????

[jmcc]

That list is more than enough reason to vote NO!

Why in blazes name do we need all this top heavy micro management for????

Because the Belgian economy would collapse without the EU?

Regards...jmcc

[corkman2007]

You will of course be aware brio, that none of the following apply to Ireland, since Ireland has opted-out of Title IV of Part Three of TFEU:

(4) Administrative cooperation in the area of freedom, security and justice (article 61G FEU treaty)
(5) Border checks (article 62 FEU treaty)
(6) Asylum (article 63 FEU treaty)
(7) Immigration (article 69a FEU treaty)
(8) Incentive measures in the field of crime prevention (article 69C traité FUE)
(9) Eurojust – structure, operation, field of action and tasks (article 69D FEU treaty)
(10) Non-operational police cooperation (article 69F FEU treaty)
(11) Europol – structure, operation, field of action and tasks (article 69G FEU treaty)
(22) Judicial cooperation in criminal matters (article 69A FEU treaty)
(23) Approximation of criminal legislation, offences and sanctions, possibly
enhanced cooperation (article 69B FEU treaty)
(34) Arrangements for a mutual evaluation mechanism of the implementation of the Union policies in the area of freedom, security and justice (article 61C FEU treaty)

These only apply to member-states that join the permanent structure cooperation group:

(27) Establishment of permanent structured cooperation in the area of defence (article 28E EU treaty)
(28) Admission of a Member State to the permanent structured cooperation arrangement in the area of defence (article 28E EU treaty)
(29) Suspension of a Member State from the permanent structured cooperation arrangement in the area of defence (article 28E EU treaty)

That reduces the list to 36 points that are relevant to Ireland. Some of these points are not exactly going to cause people to take up arms and attempt to overthrow the government:

(1) Initiatives of the High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy relating to the CFSP at the request of the European Council (article 15b EU treaty)

This can be qualified by the fact that any 'request of the European Council' must be made unanimously in the first place.

(13) Amendment to certain provisions in the Statute of the European System of Central Banks (article 107§3 FEU treaty)
(17) Court of Justice – establishment of specialised courts (article 225a FEU treaty)
(18) Court of Justice – amendment to the provisions of the Statute, with the exception of the statute of judges and advocates general and the language regime (article 245 FEU treaty)
(32) Measures to secure diplomatic and consular protection (article 20 FEU treaty)
(33) Citizens’ initiative for the tabling of a European law (article 21 FEU treaty FUE)
(37) Sport (article 149 FEU treaty)
(38) Space policy (article 172a FEU treaty)
(39) Energy (article 176A FEU treaty)*
(40) Tourism (article 176B FEU treaty)
(41) Civil protection (article 176C FEU treaty)*
(43) Urgent financial assistance to third countries (article 188I FEU treaty)
(44) Humanitarian aid (article 188J FEU treaty)*
(45) Arrangements for the implementation by the Union of the solidarity clause in case of terrorist attack or natural disaster, where this decision has no defence implications (article 188R§3 FEU treaty)
(46) List of Council configurations (article 201b FEU treaty)
(47) Operating rules and appointment of the members of the panel set up in order to give an opinion on candidates' suitability to perform the duties of Judge and Advocate-General of the Court of Justice before their appointment (article 224a
FEU treaty)
(48) Administration of the European Union (article 254a FEU treaty)
(49) Revision of the rules governing the nature and composition of the Committee of the Regions and the Economic and Social Committee (article 256a FEU treaty)

*Note that most of the measures in the area of energy are at present adopted on the basis of provisions which already require QMV (Art. 95 EC, Art. 175 EC).

*Note that measures in the area of civil protection are at present adopted on the basis of provisions which already require QMV (Art. 175 EC).

*Note that measures in the area of humanitarian aid are at present adopted on the basis of provisions which already require QMV (Art. 179 EC).

So that reduces to 18 the number of areas of significance which apply to Ireland (and I'm being generous in my definition of significance) that move completely to QMV, of which one (21) Freedom of movement for workers, social security benefits (article 42 FEU treaty), has a supplementary mechanism (the 'Emergency brake') applied to it.

Once again brio you're making wildly exaggerated claims about relatively minor rearrangements.

BTW, you should read the thread on 'Suggestions for the No side', especially ivnryn's QMV calculations on how the changes to the QMV voting system would affect Ireland.

[Helium Three]

You will of course be aware brio, that none of the following apply to Ireland, since Ireland has opted-out of Title IV of Part Three of TFEU:

(4) Administrative cooperation in the area of freedom, security and justice (article 61G FEU treaty)
(5) Border checks (article 62 FEU treaty)
(6) Asylum (article 63 FEU treaty)
(7) Immigration (article 69a FEU treaty)
(8) Incentive measures in the field of crime prevention (article 69C traité FUE)
(9) Eurojust – structure, operation, field of action and tasks (article 69D FEU treaty)
(10) Non-operational police cooperation (article 69F FEU treaty)
(11) Europol – structure, operation, field of action and tasks (article 69G FEU treaty)
(22) Judicial cooperation in criminal matters (article 69A FEU treaty)
(23) Approximation of criminal legislation, offences and sanctions, possibly
enhanced cooperation (article 69B FEU treaty)
(34) Arrangements for a mutual evaluation mechanism of the implementation of the Union policies in the area of freedom, security and justice (article 61C FEU treaty)

For the sake of completeness - if and when we were to opt in of course they would become directly relevant.

[rockofcashel]

Don't be silly...

This Treaty changes nothing.. it's only a tidying up exercise, making things more efficient..

Move along now.. nothing to see here ....

Those on the Yes side in the majority consist of fools, liars and knaves.. they know no more about what the Treaty will mean if passed, than the majority on the No side do...

But at least the No side aren't stupid enough to jump into a hole with no idea how deep it is...

[Pidge]

But at least the No side aren't stupid enough to jump into a hole with no idea how deep it is...

Especially if that hole is apparently filled with conscripted abortionists...

[Helium Three]

But at least the No side aren't stupid enough to jump into a hole with no idea how deep it is...

Especially if that hole is apparently filled with conscripted abortionists...

More likely to be littered with leftover bits of broken down treaties that they now say weren't fit for purpose...