Unless we vote NO, the Irish people hand it over the final decision on immigration policy to Ireland to the EU, which will decide immigration policy by QMV.
In a referendum the people decide policy directly. In Lisbon we give up the veto on immigration.
The argument here being they're un-European, or anti-European by (for differing reasons) not being gung-ho supports of the current EU trend?Originally Posted by ibis
Yeah - terribly off-message. Out of interest, do you really think that the No groups who have opposed every previous EU treaty really love the EU?Well, that's WACI... they're not all there really...You might get one off the WACI lads, but otherwise everyone on the No side is claiming they just love the EU. Which is curious, you know, because most of them (SF, PANA, McKenna, Coughlan, COIR, etc) have opposed every single EU Treaty ever.
There's something akin to the usual anti-American/unAmerican diatribe about that charge I have to say. Very FOX News...
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brio, the Irish government (along with the UK) has opted out of Title IV [V] of Part Three of TFEU, covering the areas you've mentioned.
The Irish government has introduced legislation so that it can't opt in without the approval of both houses of the Oireachtas.
If you really think that any Irish government is going to opt in to this stuff, and risk getting hammered at the following election, then you're getting more deluded by the minute.
BTW, the laws on non-EU immigration policy have always been in the control of the government, not via referendum.
As ibis has said, your argument boils down to claiming that Lisbon gives control over non-EU immigration to the Irish government - a control it's always had!
'It would actually give me the greatest of pleasure watching non-compliant taxpayers going to jail. That's the kind of person I am.' Bertie Ahern, 1993.
Pray tell Corkman2007. You know an opt out / is also an opt in for the future.
It is the government which decides this, not the people.
What peice of legislation are you talking about?
Please give name, date, references and link if you have it.
Thanks
The government has always decided this, not the people.
Look for the legislation yourself.
'It would actually give me the greatest of pleasure watching non-compliant taxpayers going to jail. That's the kind of person I am.' Bertie Ahern, 1993.
Well, no - the argument is that they say they love the EU as it currently is, it's been a great thing for Ireland, etc - but they've opposed every EU treaty, including in some cases the original decision to join the EU. It strikes me as unlikely that they really do like the EU - or ever have - but know that the majority of people do.The argument here being they're un-European, or anti-European by (for differing reasons) not being gung-ho supports of the current EU trend?Yeah - terribly off-message. Out of interest, do you really think that the No groups who have opposed every previous EU treaty really love the EU?Well, that's WACI... they're not all there really...You might get one off the WACI lads, but otherwise everyone on the No side is claiming they just love the EU. Which is curious, you know, because most of them (SF, PANA, McKenna, Coughlan, COIR, etc) have opposed every single EU Treaty ever.
There's something akin to the usual anti-American/unAmerican diatribe about that charge I have to say. Very FOX News...
Do you consider that honest?
Never let the best be the enemy of the good.
It's quite simple. As far as I am aware there is not and never has been any such legislation.Look for the legislation yourself.
Please point out the legislation you spoke of or withdraw your statement.
Go f*ck yourself. And learn to use Google.
'It would actually give me the greatest of pleasure watching non-compliant taxpayers going to jail. That's the kind of person I am.' Bertie Ahern, 1993.
That doesn't seem correct, brio. The government has an opt-out, so the government can opt in, or not opt in, to whatever EU policy is decided. It could decide that it prefers its own policy - so it seems to me that we're vesting control over immigration policy in our government. Which, I have to say, seems pretty much where it is at the moment, too.
Odd argument.
Never let the best be the enemy of the good.
I asked you very politely to point out and reference the supposed legislation you said prevented Irish govt from opting into EU immigration policy area without approval of both houses of Oireachtas.
You have not be able to point out where the names and dates of this legislation.
So at this point, I take it that you are only bluffing.
I would like to be proven wrong.
The second point still stands, if Lisbon is passed Irish pepole hand over veto on immigration policy
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Agree Ibis, an opt out is also an opt in come the future - the govt decided if and when, but not the people directly
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