if no to lisbon campaign is right, is it a bad thing?

[socialdemocrate]

Just a thought, but if everything the No to Lisbon campaign says will happen if we pass it comes true, is that such a bad thing

Please add to this as you wish, but according to the No Campaign if the Lisbon treaty is passe the following will happen,

1. Abortion -
so no more " Irish solution to an Irish problem" (aka. exporting it to england), we'lll have to grow up and deal with abortion as adults and legislate properly for it - i
2 A european army -
so no more bowing to the will of the Únited states or the Russian ( for the east of the union)
3. The irish government has less control
so no more corruption, sleeven politicians, the country will be run by a someone who actually believes in public serivce
4. we lose a commissioner
so instead of the commissioners in power just looking after their own territory they'll have to make decisions based on whats best for all instead!
5. The Charter of Fundamental Rights will override the Irish Constitution
so we get a modern human rights based charter that overides a biased, badly written pile of crap!
6 the creation of the much-heralded European Public Prosecutor and a European federal judicial system
so no more "jobs for the boys" legal system, corrupted politicans might even get sent to jail!
7 tax harmonisation
a level playing field, no more factories closing down and moving to the other end of the union for tax reasons, no more VRT!


I been devils advocate here obviously but really is it such a bad thing if i vote yes?

[PaintingMedium]

Yeah, pretty much it is a bad thing. I see you have picked the most extreme examples of certain groups who support a No vote, so that is nice of you! nice and balanced!

[socialdemocrate]

actually no, i put in all the views i've heard so far, I would actually appreciate some non extreme views and arguements, i'm sure there are some perfectly good reasons to vote no but you have to admit, the extreme views of some of the no campaigners are making a mockery of the whole thing. Please give me some non extreme arguements.

[jmcc]

2 A european army -
so no more bowing to the will of the Únited states or the Russian ( for the east of the union)

So the French and Germans can once more bestride the world stage?

3. the country will be run by a someone who actually believes in public serivce

Some political crony from Brussels that nobody voted for who is only answerable to an unelected gang of scum?

As for the commissioners - they only do what is best for themselves. Didn't the European Parliament have to fire that corrupt bunch a few years ago?

5. The Charter of Fundamental Rights will override the Irish Constitution
so we get a modern human rights based charter that overides a biased, badly written pile of crap!

It is the Irish Constitution. Not some piece of Eurotrash written by Brussels parasites. Show some respect.

6 the creation of the much-heralded European Public Prosecutor and a European federal judicial system
so no more "jobs for the boys" legal system, corrupted politicans might even get sent to jail!

They can start with the crooks in the Commission and the European Parliament. And maybe investigate the cronyism and corruption in the EU administration first.

7 tax harmonisation

We are Irish. We should have control over our own tax system.

I been devils advocate here obviously but really is it such a bad thing if i vote yes?

To vote 'yes' is to betray Ireland to the gombeenism that had scum like Dick Roche and FF allowing the desecration of Tara. So if you want to betray Ireland, go right ahead. But one day, there will be a bill to pay. And the people who sold out Ireland will pay it in blood. But it will not be their blood but rather the blood of their children who have to fight and die in neo-colonial wars to keep Brussels happy!

Regards...jmcc

[PaintingMedium]

actually no, i put in all the views i've heard so far, I would actually appreciate some non extreme views and arguements, i'm sure there are some perfectly good reasons to vote no but you have to admit, the extreme views of some of the no campaigners are making a mockery of the whole thing. Please give me some non extreme arguements.

Okay, some of mine!

1) I do not like the way Europe is heading
2) I will not vote yes on a European Treaty which is not been voted anywhere else, and especially since two countries who were given the chance to vote before, as a test, voted overwhelmingly against it. No voice, no democracy
3) I will not vote for something when it has been proven that the EU and our Government secretly planned to hold back issues which they know might effect the vote. No trust there at all.
4) I will not vote yes on something which could alter a lot of things, based on the word of a proven lying government where many members plan to get jobs there in the future. It is good for their wallets, but is good for the long run of the country.

[ibis]

There you have it. If you vote Yes you'll have the blood-drenched ghosts of a thousands of generation of Irish patriots standing accusingly by your bedside all the time. Marry an exhibitionist Goth and you're made.

On the "good of their wallets argument" - see the thread about the relative sizes of the EU and Irish troughs.

[PaintingMedium]

There you have it. If you vote Yes you'll have the blood-drenched ghosts of a thousands of generation of Irish patriots standing accusingly by your bedside all the time. Marry an exhibitionist Goth and you're made.

On the "good of their wallets argument" - see the thread about the relative sizes of the EU and Irish troughs.

The Goths are German ain't they?

[ibis]

There you have it. If you vote Yes you'll have the blood-drenched ghosts of a thousands of generation of Irish patriots standing accusingly by your bedside all the time. Marry an exhibitionist Goth and you're made.

On the "good of their wallets argument" - see the thread about the relative sizes of the EU and Irish troughs.

The Goths are German ain't they?

In the long run, Spanish (Visigoths) and Italian (Ostrogoths). I was thinking of the pale ones with the makeup, though.

[socialdemocrate]

There you have it. If you vote Yes you'll have the blood-drenched ghosts of a thousands of generation of Irish patriots standing accusingly by your bedside all the time. Marry an exhibitionist Goth and you're made.
.

actually my girlfriend is a goth and i used to be a cyber punk, dominion, fibber magees and the thirteenth fllor on the weekend , ah the memories!

[socialdemocrate]

Okay, some of mine!

1) I do not like the way Europe is heading
2) I will not vote yes on a European Treaty which is not been voted anywhere else, and especially since two countries who were given the chance to vote before, as a test, voted overwhelmingly against it. No voice, no democracy
3) I will not vote for something when it has been proven that the EU and our Government secretly planned to hold back issues which they know might effect the vote. No trust there at all.
4) I will not vote yes on something which could alter a lot of things, based on the word of a proven lying government where many members plan to get jobs there in the future. It is good for their wallets, but is good for the long run of the country.

1) what way is it heading?
2) wasn't that the old constitution idea, this is the reform treaty? Dont we elect our own governement to protect our interests, why have them if we're going to have to have a referendum on every decision.
3) what are they holding back on?
4) hasn't the EU been good for our wallets too?