Article 308 will prevent another referendum

[FutureTaoiseach]

[ibis]

Theres no reason to put that in, unless they want us to advance our military capacity by getting more toys, presumably to be used on EU missions.

As I said above, this isn't a "swords into ploughshares" treaty. However, I think you'll find that "improving Ireland's military" is already part of the remit of our Department of Defence. I see the clause as meaning that we agree not to let our soldiers go into dangerous situations on EU missions carrying outdated equipment.

and what possible international threat is there to justify this? who are they expecting to fight?

Well, I don't agree with the first part of the claim - that this is a commitment to some kind of dramatic expansion of Ireland's (or even the European nations') military capacity - so these questions are kind of superfluous.

However, the obvious answer, since the EU still lacks any military force apart from the battlegroups, is for the jobs the battlegroups will be doing. Those are pretty clearly set out in the Amsterdam Treaty - humanitarian and rescue tasks, peacekeeping tasks and tasks of combat forces in crisis management, including peacemaking.

Do you really think the vague aspirational language of the Treaty is to be translated on the ground into some kind of vast EU war machine?

[fergalr]

The age that I think FT is has been decreasing day by day the last few months.

[ibis]

The age that I think FT is has been decreasing day by day the last few months.

I'm slightly more concerned with the way he is emotionally convinced that poor little Ireland spends its time in the EU being kicked around the Commission locker room and bullied in the Council showers.

[Guinnesslad]

how anyone can defend this treaty or the way it is (planned to be) implemented is beyond me.

[fergalr]

It will be implemented following the assent of the 27 member states of the European Union, according to their consitutional practices. Dunno how incredible that is.
I support the treaty because the EU needs to be streamlined and decision making needs to be quicker. There is a democratic deficit and that needs addressing certainly but throwing the baby out with the bath water in this referendum by voting no does not solve a single thing.

[FutureTaoiseach]

It will be implemented following the assent of the 27 member states of the European Union, according to their consitutional practices. Dunno how incredible that is.
I support the treaty because the EU needs to be streamlined and decision making needs to be quicker. There is a democratic deficit and that needs addressing certainly but throwing the baby out with the bath water in this referendum by voting no does not solve a single thing.

That was the argument for voting for Nice. They said that institutional arrangements intended for 6 countries couldn't work with 27. Now they're trotting out the same argument for this Treaty. You can fool some of the people some of the time, and you can fool all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time.