How will you vote in the Lisbon Treaty referendum?

[ciaran036]

I'm definitely voting "No". I may be open to considering a renegotiated treaty later on though.

You think there's going to be a renegotiated treaty? This is the renegotiated treaty? We'll be put in a corner by ourselves like the Union's naughty, errant child while the rest get on with things if we vote against.

People are perfectly entitled to vote No but can we end the fantasy of Ireland single handedly starting a third set of talks?

I'll be voting Yes. My trust is in the Government and Department of Foreign Affairs to have not negotiated away our sovereignty

The union can get on with whatever the hell they like if we vote no, we vote no.

Am I wrong when I say that if the Lisbon Treaty referendum reaches a consensus of "NO", then the Lisbon Treaty will not be able to go ahead?
If I'm right, that means Ireland is in a position of a lot of power right now. No fantasy about it.

[myksav]

They can want whatever they want. They can't get it unless there's unanimous agreement.

Simply making a statement that you want something to happen doesn't make it happen.

I want you to vote 'Yes' on June 12th. Is that going to happen?

As you are so good at quoting extracts of the proposed Treaty, link to the part that says a common defence policy has to be on a unanimous agreement.

mike

I've told you my policy about providing links for you.

You've said you've got all the treaties at home.

I'm sure you can find the relevant text for yourself.

Oh, it's not for me, I have the relevant documents, it's for the rest who do not have them.

Do I scare you or what?
I'm not THAT scary.

mike

[ciaran036]

The same way I have voted in other European referendum: "Yes". I'm old enough to remember the horrors of this country before Europe saved us from ourselves, and I have no desire to go back to the dark ages or to be seen as Europe's slow learners.

But regardless of the Lisbon Treaty, we will still be in the EU. Therefore that does not really have any relevance, does it? Isn't the Lisbon Treaty about giving power to other countries, instead of giving power to our ELECTED leaders? Well, so far it looks like Ireland has been pretty well at managing itself. We don't need and don't want someone else treating us like we're children and need someone bigger to make the decisions.

[mjcoughlan]

The same way I have voted in other European referendum: "Yes". I'm old enough to remember the horrors of this country before Europe saved us from ourselves, and I have no desire to go back to the dark ages or to be seen as Europe's slow learners.

But regardless of the Lisbon Treaty, we will still be in the EU. Therefore that does not really have any relevance, does it? Isn't the Lisbon Treaty about giving power to other countries, instead of giving power to our ELECTED leaders? Well, so far it looks like Ireland has been pretty well at managing itself. We don't need and don't want someone else treating us like we're children and need someone bigger to make the decisions.

It's my understanding that the Lisbon Treaty is about making the EU work better and more efficiently. Maybe I'm being overly naieve(frankly the Treaty bores me) but surely it's in our interests to have an EU which works better. In any case, we should have passed the Treaty without a referendum. Every other country passed it quietly through their national parliaments without any major public outcry.

[Earnest]

The same way I have voted in other European referendum: "Yes". I'm old enough to remember the horrors of this country before Europe saved us from ourselves, and I have no desire to go back to the dark ages or to be seen as Europe's slow learners.

But regardless of the Lisbon Treaty, we will still be in the EU. Therefore that does not really have any relevance, does it? Isn't the Lisbon Treaty about giving power to other countries, instead of giving power to our ELECTED leaders? Well, so far it looks like Ireland has been pretty well at managing itself. We don't need and don't want someone else treating us like we're children and need someone bigger to make the decisions.

On the contrary, the Lisbon Treaty is about giving power to the European Parliament, and having fairer votes in the Council of Ministers. The elected leaders of Ireland will be there along with the elected leaders of other countries. Why assume they're going to be voted down?

And while legally Ireland will still be in the EU even if we vote No, there can be little doubt that they will find ways of marginalising us if we are awkward. Think carefully whether the things you object to are all that important in the long run.

[FutureTaoiseach]

On the contrary, the Lisbon Treaty is about giving power to the European Parliament, and having fairer votes in the Council of Ministers. The elected leaders of Ireland will be there along with the elected leaders of other countries. Why assume they're going to be voted down?

And while legally Ireland will still be in the EU even if we vote No, there can be little doubt that they will find ways of marginalising us if we are awkward. Think carefully whether the things you object to are all that important in the long run.

Irish interests come first. A halving of our weighted vote on the Council from 2% to 0.9% is unacceptable and will make it harder for Ireland to block legislation under QMV that we don't like.

France and Holland weren't marginalised when they voted no. Holland has only 2% unemployment - the lowest in the EU - while French unemployed has also fallen and FDI has soared.

If what you really mean is that Gelli and Sarko won't love us any more, then that's their problem not mine!

[Helium Three]

And while legally Ireland will still be in the EU even if we vote No, there can be little doubt that they will find ways of marginalising us if we are awkward. Think carefully whether the things you object to are all that important in the long run.

Watch this one -

Corporation Tax - we have a right to say no. Don't worry be happy!
Defence/Offence - we have a right to say no. Don't worry be happy!
Amendments to the treaty in future - we have a right to say no. Don't worry be happy!

Lisbon Treaty - we have a right to say no. But f we use it don't happy be worry.

[myksav]

The same way I have voted in other European referendum: "Yes". I'm old enough to remember the horrors of this country before Europe saved us from ourselves, and I have no desire to go back to the dark ages or to be seen as Europe's slow learners.

But regardless of the Lisbon Treaty, we will still be in the EU. Therefore that does not really have any relevance, does it? Isn't the Lisbon Treaty about giving power to other countries, instead of giving power to our ELECTED leaders? Well, so far it looks like Ireland has been pretty well at managing itself. We don't need and don't want someone else treating us like we're children and need someone bigger to make the decisions.

It's my understanding that the Lisbon Treaty is about making the EU work better and more efficiently. Maybe I'm being overly naieve(frankly the Treaty bores me) but surely it's in our interests to have an EU which works better. In any case, we should have passed the Treaty without a referendum. Every other country passed it quietly through their national parliaments without any major public outcry.

Good gods, are you serious??


Why not just scrap our Constitution?

That would make everything peachy-keen, wouldn't it.

mike

[myksav]

On the contrary, the Lisbon Treaty is about giving power to the European Parliament, and having fairer votes in the Council of Ministers. The elected leaders of Ireland will be there along with the elected leaders of other countries. Why assume they're going to be voted down?

And while legally Ireland will still be in the EU even if we vote No, there can be little doubt that they will find ways of marginalising us if we are awkward. Think carefully whether the things you object to are all that important in the long run.

Oh brilliant, it's do as we say or you will be marginalised.

You know, Tony Benn said that this Treaty could give rise to Nationalism inside the EU. He's right. All this is making me feel more and more nationalistic.

mike

[mjcoughlan]

The same way I have voted in other European referendum: "Yes". I'm old enough to remember the horrors of this country before Europe saved us from ourselves, and I have no desire to go back to the dark ages or to be seen as Europe's slow learners.

But regardless of the Lisbon Treaty, we will still be in the EU. Therefore that does not really have any relevance, does it? Isn't the Lisbon Treaty about giving power to other countries, instead of giving power to our ELECTED leaders? Well, so far it looks like Ireland has been pretty well at managing itself. We don't need and don't want someone else treating us like we're children and need someone bigger to make the decisions.

It's my understanding that the Lisbon Treaty is about making the EU work better and more efficiently. Maybe I'm being overly naieve(frankly the Treaty bores me) but surely it's in our interests to have an EU which works better. In any case, we should have passed the Treaty without a referendum. Every other country passed it quietly through their national parliaments without any major public outcry.

Good gods, are you serious??


Why not just scrap our Constitution?

That would make everything peachy-keen, wouldn't it.

mike

Yeah I'm serious. But I'm not talking about scrapping the constitution - I don't know where you got that from. We, in theory at least, elect politicians to make political decisions for us. When you consider the complexities of the issues involved in the Treaty, it's sheer length, the number of issues it covers, and the many mind-numbingly tedious aspects to it, we are essentially going to have an uniformed electorate voting for or against something about which they know very little. That's no way to make decisions. If the issues are important enough, they should be at the centre of a general election campaign.