Tory Party rules out referendum

[Electro]

The Conservative Party talk the talk but they do not walk the walk. Hence, their "conservativism" is nominal.

Their brand of conservatism is "kosher", it's "safe", not likely to cause any opposition to the established flow of tihngs.

[Didimus]

Just asking cause a google search of the term seems only to reference some fairly unpleasant far right websites.

[Mouroux]

UKIP are going to do very well by taking seats from both 'New' Labour and the 'ready for change' Tories.

[Estragon]

This poll could do with a don't care option.

[Rifleman]

"But haven't the Tories allowed that there can be a popular vote on any future European treaty?! What a joke... but of course the voters will buy it." (Mouroux)

I wouldn't bet on that, Mouroux. Have a look at the link below, to a section of the Conservative Party HQ website; 259 posts in a matter of hours, and the overwhelming majority implacably hostile. If the party faithful feel like that, not just about the policy, but about Cameron, how many of them d'you think will turn out for him come the next election, to do all the mailshots and phone calls, which are so vital to election success? And look how many are flatly stating that they will vote UKIP for the first time ever?

The Blue Blog A policy on Europe that people can believe in

"A policy on Europe that people can believe in"? He can't even convince his own party, so what chance has he with other voters?

"Following Klaus' shameful surrender in the face of bullying by Sarko and Merkel . . . " (Future Taoiseach)

Um, FT? "Shameful surrender in the face of bullying . . ." ?

I think President Klaus might justifiably draw your attention to the recent referendum in Ireland . . . if you live in a greenhouse, best you don't throw stones at your neighbours, eh?

[TommyO'Brien]

Well to be fair, they had always insisted that a referendum was dependent on Lisbon not having come into force across the EU by then. Following Klaus' shameful surrender in the face of bullying by Sarko and Merkel, including their own Constitutional Court President being visited by the German Ambassador Johannes Hayndel, it is clear this Treaty - so destructive of national independence and democracy - is now to come into force. I accept, grudgingly, that reality.

But a new battle is about to begin on the future of the Justice optout. The govt intends to "review" it within 3 years (Dermot Ahern as Foreign Minister) while FG wants to abolish it outright. All parties must be forced to come clean as to their intentions on retention/abolition of Protocol 21. Should it be surrendered, the ECJ will reign supreme on our asylum and immigration policy, and Justice policy in general.

Still trotting out that lie I see. Obviously two bans have done nothing to fix your wild misrepresentations of what is in Lisbon.

So do you actually believe the garbage you post? At least the senior leaders of the No side knew that they were spoofing and got a giggle out of it. But you seem to actually believe your fantasies are the truth.

(Welcome back, BTW!)

[FutureTaoiseach]

Still trotting out that lie I see. Obviously two bans have done nothing to fix your wild misrepresentations of what is in Lisbon.

So do you actually believe the garbage you post? At least the senior leaders of the No side knew that they were spoofing and got a giggle out of it. But you seem to actually believe your fantasies are the truth.

(Welcome back, BTW!)

If I believed it was garbage, I wouldn't still hold to the beliefs I do as to the implications of the Charter. They are genuine concerns on my part, and imho well founded. They and I will ultimately be vindicated.

As for my previous ban, I was told it was because of going off topic. Nothing to do with this thread.

Thanks for the welcome back. Not fishing for rep I hope?

[mryoungdan]

So the pretense of "democracy" in Europe cant even find a place to hide out in Britain. No referendum - because the British people would not be frightened into submission like the Irish were.

Spot on Cael, I hope half them starve

[molloyjh]

If I believed it was garbage, I wouldn't still hold to the beliefs I do as to the implications of the Charter. They are genuine concerns on my part, and imho well founded. They and I will ultimately be vindicated.

As for my previous ban, I was told it was because of going off topic. Nothing to do with this thread.

Thanks for the welcome back. Not fishing for rep I hope?

FT you believe a lot of things. And you also hold the opinion everything you say is well founded. That, unfortunately, does not make it so. Anyone who thinks that corporate taxation can be magically transformed into an indirect tax, or that a judgement saying that International Law cannot be used as an excuse to overrule any and all unrelated EU laws or even that the Charter will apply to domestic law is hardly the most reliable source for well founded opinions and concerns.

[FrankSpeaks]

Judging by the poll so far I see this place is still heavily populated by anti-lisbonites.