Lisbon Referendum - Class Politics In Ireland

[cactusflower]

All commentators and tallymen seem to agree that it was a class vote.
90% Yes in some middle class constituencies but high No votes in many working class areas.

Its too early for a full analysis, but it seems also that many who voted No last time stayed at home for the Second Referendum.

Labour opposed membership of the EU in the 1970s, and after our membership the old generation of small manufacturing industry was stripped out by the open market, leaving pockets of unemployment and poverty that have never recovered, becoming areas of entrenched social disadvantage.

The benefits of the EU integration have not been evenly experienced, nor the disbenefits. The EU has greatly benefited some who have exploited the opportunities of market driven policies during the long expansionary boom. Governments throughout the EU have enlisted the EU and arguments for "an even playing field" to drive through privatisation.
Others have been left completely out of that loop and are comparatively speaking worse off than their fathers and mothers were.

The fault line on the EU in the Republic is along class lines. The middle class, whether wealthy or in debt and frightened, believes that the EU will save it with a bail out. I believe they are wrong.
In the Lisbon vote, we got the class politics that people have been talking about for so long.

<Mod> This thread has been merged with "Why are the working class so against things like EU?" </Mod>

[True Republican]

I did hear on RTE this morning that InCornelscourt a very middle class suburb in DL-Rathdown that in early tallies 93% voted in favour.

[TimBuckII]

I did hear on RTE this morning that InCornelscourt a very middle class suburb in DL-Rathdown that in early tallies 93% voted in favour.

These areas were well off. No they are struggling, and panicing.

[True Republican]

These areas were well off. No they are struggling, and panicing.

I apologise your absolutely right even people in well off areas are now up to their necks in self inflicted debt.

[evercloserunion]

Are there figures around of how the vote went in working class areas? It's not good enough to say that middle class areas voted yes, therefore only the middle class support the Treaty. Undoubtedly support for the EU will be weaker in working class areas but apparantly only Donegal has a chance of returning a No majority so the claim that the working class have voted against the Treaty this time around does not square with reality.

[cactusflower]

These areas were well off. No they are struggling, and panicing.

Yes, the middle class is right to be fearful. The party is over. Only people with no debt or big wealth are safe. For the rest, radical disimprovement in standard of living is the prospect for the next twenty years.

The idea that a Yes vote will in some way save the Irish economy and save people from defaulting on their mortgages is an illusion born of desperation.

[mothball]

I've decided to vote for Fianna Fáil in the next elections. Might as well help prop up the government. This is a resounding victory for FF.
The people deserve these filth.

[cactusflower]

Are there figures around of how the vote went in working class areas? It's not good enough to say that middle class areas voted yes, therefore only the middle class support the Treaty. Undoubtedly support for the EU will be weaker in working class areas but apparantly only Donegal has a chance of returning a No majority so the claim that the working class have voted against the Treaty this time around does not square with reality.

It squares with what every tally I've heard has said. There are figures for high No votes being reported in working class areas. I've already made the point that its too early to have a comprehensive analysis. Can you find an example of a constituency that would buck that trend ? It sounds in any event as though you are only arguing over the degree to which the vote was class based.

[evercloserunion]

It squares with what every tally I've heard has said. There are figures for high No votes being reported in working class areas. I've already made the point that its too early to have a comprehensive analysis. Can you find an example of a constituency that would buck that trend ? It sounds in any event as though you are only arguing over the degree to which the vote was class based.

Yes, I am debating the degree. Undoubtedly every vote is class based to an extent, as class is determinative of so much in one's life that to say that there is any vote in which class does not play a large role is just foolish.

The European Union has had benefits for the working class as well as the middle class, and as we move towards a more social Europe the working class will have more to gain. I think we need considerable reform in the EU to make it work better for workers and the less well off, but in order to do that we need to acknowledge that the EU is a legitimate entity which can potentially offer great benefits and not just an evil empire hell-bent on militarization and abortion. People say we need to save the EU from itself. To an extent that is true, but to do that we first need to save it from its external enemies.

[Lazarus]

Yes, I am debating the degree. Undoubtedly every vote is class based to an extent, as class is determinative of so much in one's life that to say that there is any vote in which class does not play a large role is just foolish.

The European Union has had benefits for the working class as well as the middle class, and as we move towards a more social Europe the working class will have more to gain. I think we need considerable reform in the EU to make it work better for workers and the less well off, but in order to do that we need to acknowledge that the EU is a legitimate entity which can potentially offer great benefits and not just an evil empire hell-bent on militarization and abortion. People say we need to save the EU from itself. To an extent that is true, but to do that we first need to save it from its external enemies.

Well said. Its better to be inside the tent p.ssing out than outside the tent p.issing in.

I also agree that people who vote for FF are incomprehensible. But I have always felt that way. I voted yes for Ireland, not to keep a cprrupt system of Government, and a ruthless one in office.