How secure is the Lisbon referendum against Fraud?

[Civic_critic2]

I rang around a few places from the referendum commission to Dun Laoghaire county council to find out information about the process by which ballot boxes are collected and stored after the Lisbon vote. Finally I was directed towards the franchise section of the Department of the Environment, Heritage and Local Government who themselves directed me towards the returning officer for Dublin, who appaently is the person with the info and is responsible for organising these details with the gardai. The website outlining the polling stations and ballot oboxes is here: Dublin County Returning Officer

So I rang up this office and the person on the other end of the phone was very pleasant and helpful and tried to answer my questions; for example, I asked was a private company employed to drive around and collect the boxes with a lone guard accompanying them like I was told last time. The person on the other end of the phone wasn't sure but thought that it was a van with a garda escort. I asked did this mean that the boxes were in one van and the guards in another, effectively breaking oversight for a period of time, and if so who was in the van if it was a private company, just the driver or the driver and a helper? At this point the person on the other end asked me to send through my questions by email and they'd find the information for me and send it back. They were very pleasant and helpful and I had explained that I was interested in the transparency of the process.

So I sent through the email this morning, which consisted of the follwoing:

Hi X,

thanks for taking my call just now. I'm interested in the logistics of the collection and oversight of the ballot boxes from the point of view of the transparency of the process. As we discussed my questions are the following:

Who collects the ballot boxes - a private company, the garda or a combination of the two or others?
When the ballot box is collected is it placed in the back of the (private company) van while the accompanying garda remain in the accompanying car, thus effectively meaning the ballot box and garda are sperated at least some of the time?
If a private company/council/others collects the boxes, how many employees of that company accompany the van - just the driver or the driver and a helper?
How many polling stations does each van and garda escort visit to the collect the boxes from - 5, 10, 20 etc.?
What vetting procedures are in place for the employees who collect the boxes and who decides which garda are to be part of the garda escort?
What is the procedure for the transfer of the boxes when they reach the count centre and who oversees this?
How long do the boxes remain unopened in the count centre before they are counted and who oversees them?

I understand that with just a week to go you are very busy and I appreciate the time you're taking to answer my questions.

Many thanks and I look forward to your reply.

I received an acknowledgement of my mail and the assurance that I would receive a reply. I did a receive a reply about an hour later, this time from the Dublin County Returning Officer. The reply is as follows:

Mr. X,

I refer to your email below and I respond as follows.

I have met with my contractor and with the Gardaí and we have planned all
security procedures relating to the referendum and I am not prepared to
disclose those to anyone.

Yours sincerely,

X
Dublin County Returning Officer.

This was a shocking reply and I thought the returning officer may have suffered a fit of paranoia and got the wrong end of the stick so I sent a reply to this to give them a chance to amend this reply on reflection. I wrote:

Dear Mr. X,

thanks for your reply. I find it surprising that you are unwilling to provide information which is of public concern to us all and which is crucial to the security of the voting process. In a country which is democratic it simply cannot remain hidden who has custody of the ballot boxes at any point throughout the process. Are the main parties of the state informed of the details of this process? Who in fact decides the details of this process - is it specified in legislation or is it to be decided by the returning officer and the gardai and by them alone?

It is the transparency of the voting process which concerns me here and your previous email, rather than reassuring me, has made me more alarmed. I hope you can provide me with the information I am seeking which should be available to and known by the country as a whole.

Kind regards,

X

I haven't received any further reply.

What do you make of an electoral process where you are not entitled to know who has chain of custody of the ballot boxes?

<Mod> This thread has been merged with "Should U.N election monitors be asked to monitor the Lisbon vote & count?" </Mod>

<Mod> This thread has been merged with "Will The Count Be Honest on LISBON." </Mod>

<Mod> This thread has been merged with "FF activists receiving upto €1000 for administration of the polling station?" </Mod>

<Mod> This thread has been merged with "Press release 29th Sept 2009". </Mod>

[odie1kanobe]

Spam

[Cael]

The Lisbon Treaty is like the carton of stale milk the corrupt shopkeeper keeps pushing to the front of the shelf.

[Sync]

I would say a better bet would be to contact a central department.


EU Division,
Department of Foreign Affairs,
76/78 Harcourt Street,
Dublin 2,
Ireland.
Lo-Call 1850 211 602

Would be my first stop. No local branch could or should give out security information, so they won't be of much help. I would just ask first of all a generic question of "who is responsible for setting security rules and checking those rules are enforce" as opposed to any specifics to begin with though.

[Ah Well]

Spam

Spam is the abuse of electronic messaging systems (including most broadcast media, digital delivery systems) to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately

The OP and the matters therein do not fall into this category

And the fact they received an email reply would also reinforce this.

[PAD10H]

why should they give security details away?

I can imagine the Officers thoughts when he/she saw that email "who the f** is this feckin eejit"

you're living in ireland not burma.

[odie1kanobe]

Spam is the abuse of electronic messaging systems (including most broadcast media, digital delivery systems) to send unsolicited bulk messages indiscriminately

The OP and the matters therein do not fall into this category

And the fact they received an email reply would also reinforce this.

Er no it wouldn't as the many people who get caught in the Nigerian sacms will probably testify.

[dotski_w_]

Hmmm I have to say that if someone rang me up asking questions like that the first thing I'd wonder would be if it was someone who was looking to tamper with them.

The security of the ballots is not enhanced by any loon having the right to know the details of where they'll be.

[ON THE ONE ROAD]

in france they count the votes in the polling station as soon as the vote is closed. probably the safest option i can think of.

our system relies on a puncher on the ballot paper and a sceal imprinted in wax on the box. iam more worried about when the boxes get to the polling station. there is about 5 hours when they are under the supervision of one gaurd untill the staff and the political parties come in to do the tallies the next morning. not casting aspurions on all gaurds but to error is human.

[seenitallb4]

Security and transparency are not mutually exclusive.