Time for Labour and S.P (Joe Higgins) to unite?

[JollyRedGiant]

This is where the whole "surrounded by neoliberal states" problem comes in, you try to take that wealth off the richest 1% you get capital flight.
Theres no way to get it.

You are again thinking two-dimensional - there is no way that any governemtn would introduce such a wealth tax without it being firmly on the far left - and there is no way a far left government could emerge in Ireland without similar developments in other European countries. I am using it for demonstrative purposes. Flights of capital have happened before - they are not an impediment to a planned economy - the factories, machines, infrastructure and workforce are available. Democratically socailist planned economics are far more advanced than the anarchy of the markets with its furutre and it derivatives etc. Remove the profit motive from economic activity and you increase economic active by a huge magnitude. Over 57% of current GNP is siphoned off in profits - much of it stashed away out of the country and practically none of it contributing to economic activity. It circulates through the art galleries and the stud farms and the premiership football clubs but very little of it impacts on the real economy.

[Mr.De-Regulation]

The only effective way to tax the rich, is a European tax. Plu8s, how are you going to invest in jobs? You destroy jobs automatically by taxes. So to tax people to create jobs, you need to create two or three times the amount jobs that are lost.

[Mr.De-Regulation]

You are again thinking two-dimensional - there is no way that any governemtn would introduce such a wealth tax without it being firmly on the far left - and there is no way a far left government could emerge in Ireland without similar developments in other European countries. I am using it for demonstrative purposes. Flights of capital have happened before - they are not an impediment to a planned economy - the factories, machines, infrastructure and workforce are available. Democratically socailist planned economics are far more advanced than the anarchy of the markets with its furutre and it derivatives etc. Remove the profit motive from economic activity and you increase economic active by a huge magnitude. Over 57% of current GNP is siphoned off in profits - much of it stashed away out of the country and practically none of it contributing to economic activity. It circulates through the art galleries and the stud farms and the premiership football clubs but very little of it impacts on the real economy.

How much money do you plan on investing in tin foil hats?

[JollyRedGiant]

how are you going to invest in jobs? You destroy jobs automatically by taxes. So to tax people to create jobs, you need to create two or three times the amount jobs that are lost.

you are assuming that capitalists invest in jobs - they don't - they invest in profits - they need workers to produce the profits. A democratically planned socialist economy will invest in jobs in a coordinated fashion that will contribute far more to economic growth that the haphazard fashion of economic investment that capitalists engage in - the market does not work - hasn't for well over 100 years - and and never will again.

[PhoenixIreland]

The only effective way to tax the rich, is a European tax. Plu8s, how are you going to invest in jobs? You destroy jobs automatically by taxes. So to tax people to create jobs, you need to create two or three times the amount jobs that are lost.

Yes I'm sure the people who are unemployed now are unemployed because they're deterred by our super high taxes Thats the problem.

You are again thinking two-dimensional - there is no way that any governemtn would introduce such a wealth tax without it being firmly on the far left - and there is no way a far left government could emerge in Ireland without similar developments in other European countries. I am using it for demonstrative purposes. Flights of capital have happened before - they are not an impediment to a planned economy - the factories, machines, infrastructure and workforce are available. Democratically socailist planned economics are far more advanced than the anarchy of the markets with its furutre and it derivatives etc. Remove the profit motive from economic activity and you increase economic active by a huge magnitude. Over 57% of current GNP is siphoned off in profits - much of it stashed away out of the country and practically none of it contributing to economic activity. It circulates through the art galleries and the stud farms and the premiership football clubs but very little of it impacts on the real economy.

I understand what your saying but there seems to be a contradiciton in your thinking, your caught in a kind of...feedback loop.

You recognize certain things are impractical unless certain global or at the very least European circumstances emerge, yet since those circumstances have not now emerged you criticize anyone taking any measures in the current climate.
Were talking two totally different games here socialism v capitalism, your using rugby rules to criticize soccer.
Most parties are talking about changes within the system but your criticism are based on measures you'd like to take if that system itself were not in place

[JollyRedGiant]

How much money do you plan on investing in tin foil hats?

Not aware of any productive use for them - so the answer would be - nothing.

[JollyRedGiant]

You recognize certain things are impractical unless certain global or at the very least European circumstances emerge, yet since those circumstances have not now emerged you criticize anyone taking any measures in the current climate.

I am realistic enough to know that a socialist revolution is not around the corner - but I am also realistic enough to know that being in coalition with a right-wing party will only make thigns work. I am singularly interested in helping working class people - I am not in the least worried about getting the capitalist class or the capitalist economy out of the sh*t. It's in the sh*t because it is capitalist - it doesn't work and there is no use in pretending it does. Do yourself a favour and have a look back at the history of the LP in coalition. Look particularly at the 1973-1977 and the 1982-1987 coalition governments and try and find a single advancement made by the LP.

[Mr.De-Regulation]

you are assuming that capitalists invest in jobs - they don't - they invest in profits - they need workers to produce the profits. A democratically planned socialist economy will invest in jobs in a coordinated fashion that will contribute far more to economic growth that the haphazard fashion of economic investment that capitalists engage in - the market does not work - hasn't for well over 100 years - and and never will again.

Refer from calling business men "capitalists". You change the topic of the conversation. I am a capitalist. Coke, Apple, and McDonalds, are not capitalists, they are businesses.

You can make profits without employing other people.

We already have a democratically planned economy. You havent suggested how you would do things that Fianna Fail wont. I assume you are a FF supporter too then.

Yes I'm sure the people who are unemployed now are unemployed because they're deterred by our super high taxes Thats the problem.

Taxes take money out of the circulation, slows down economic activity, thus destroys jobs.

[PhoenixIreland]

Actually in the latter of those Dick Spring steadfastly refused to make cuts and demanded tax hikes instead, which led us to 60% taxes on the average industrial wage. In my mind thats the kinda result you get when you seek ideological purity.

Take the rainbow coalition, do you think free third level fees would have happened with FG alone?

If Labour refused to participate in government with conservative parties that would probably have meant I'd be a few grand in debt now as I leave college this year. Not a big net gain for the workers is it?

Erm...no Dereg they don't...at all...they rearrange money, it's still spent it does not go into a black hole.
Jesus, the economic illiteracy on this site is stunning.

[Mr.De-Regulation]

Phoenix, i assume I have a far greater knowledge of economics and history than you.


If money money is taxed, it is taken out of economy and destroys jobs. If invested wisely, it will create more wealth and jobs. If it isnt, the money is wasted, it destroys the economy. Like the bank bailout.