Time for Labour and S.P (Joe Higgins) to unite?

[PhoenixIreland]

A couple of points:

1. To the SP guys, don't you think the lefts fragmentation is one of the reasons it's so ineffective in getting it's policies passed?
There is no reason SWP and SP don't need to be separate parties (just tactics and personalities), or Labour, SF and the Greens need to be separate parties.

2. If Labour, SF and the Greens say had the numbers would you look favorably on entering such a coalition? It's not gonna introduce worker control of industry, but isn't it better to support it introducing say...single payer healthcare? It's not exactly what you want but its in the right direction surely? Doens't stop you advocating for more than that as a separate party (I'm talking coalition not merger) and as long as the left stays fragmented we won't even get those "in the right direction" accomplishments.


3. Were you in power alone do you really think you could implement your full programme with Ireland tied up in a very neoliberal EU, WTO, IMF and globalized world dominated by very powerful neoliberal states?

[patronsaint]

Joe Higgins spent most of his time in the Labour Party trying to persuade people not to vote for Labour ! He'll spend his time in harmless activity in the European parliament until the next GE and then, if he's successful here, will hand the baton to someone else ( Daly ? ) so he can continue his playtime in the Dáil.

[Arcadius]

If Labour moves significantly to the left they'll get a larger share of a smaller left vote.
Like it or not, somebody in the hypothetical left-led government would have to appeal to the centre.
Or would the purity of permanent opposition be preferable?

[cactusflower]

For anyone who wants to look at how the centre has the answers for Labour, just take a look at Gordon Brown's party.

[JollyRedGiant]

A couple of points:

1. To the SP guys, don't you think the lefts fragmentation is one of the reasons it's so ineffective in getting it's policies passed?
There is no reason SWP and SP don't need to be separate parties (just tactics and personalities), or Labour, SF and the Greens need to be separate parties.

To start with the LP, SF and the GP all support going into coalition with either FF or FG and all three parties support a neo-liberal economic programme.

As for the SWP - tactics and personalities are a very minor part of the problem we would have with the SWP - amog many other things, for example - the SWP give uncritical support to Hamas - would the LP agree to join SF as a single party if it openly supported an armed campaign of individual terror by the IRA?

2. If Labour, SF and the Greens say had the numbers would you look favorably on entering such a coalition? It's not gonna introduce worker control of industry, but isn't it better to support it introducing say...single payer healthcare? It's not exactly what you want but its in the right direction surely? Doens't stop you advocating for more than that as a separate party (I'm talking coalition not merger) and as long as the left stays fragmented we won't even get those "in the right direction" accomplishments.

No - the Socialist Party would not participate in such a coalition - we would support any progressive reforms proposed by such a coalition - but given the support of all three parties for neo-liberal policies it is inevitable that this coalition would be imposing cuts in public sevices and attacking the wages and living standards of working class people - just like the GP are currently doing in the South and SF are currently doing in the North and the LP has consistantly done in every coalition it has ever been involved in.

3. Were you in power alone do you really think you could implement your full programme with Ireland tied up in a very neoliberal EU, WTO, IMF and globalized world dominated by very powerful neoliberal states?

Yes - because by the time that the Socialist Party can command the support of the majority of the people in this country, the country will be ripe for a socialist transformation - and this will only happen when similar occurances are taking place in other countries of the advanced capitalist world. The Russian Revolution did not occur in isolation but was a part (the successful part) of a revolutionary upheaval that encompassed most of Europe.

[cactusflower]

What is the Socialist Party's strategy for preventing a Fine Gael government getting into power?

[JollyRedGiant]

What is the Socialist Party's strategy for preventing a Fine Gael government getting into power?

Being even remotely realistic - do you see any prospect of FG not getting into government after the next election (unless the LP decide to bail out FF) - short of Kenny doing something extremely stupid (like - for example - saying something like - the clerical sex abuse never happened)?

[cactusflower]

Being even remotely realistic - do you see any prospect of FG not getting into government after the next election (unless the LP decide to bail out FF) - short of Kenny doing something extremely stupid (like - for example - saying something like - the clerical sex abuse never happened)?

We don't know what is going to be happening at the time of the next election, or when it will be. Fine Gael is the most right wing option going and would do an IMF job without the IMF even having to ask. They should not be given the comfort of Labour support when Labour gets the votes of people who are opposed to Fine Gael. However slim or otherwise the chance of stopping them, it can't be right not to oppose a Labour FG alliance.

Are you saying that under no circumstances would the Socialist Party be involved in a Left coalition government - not on any terms ?

[LeftOfCentre]

SWP - Boarder Line Anarchists

SF - Left headless chicken party (but good workers locally!)

SP - Idealists ... Respectable party, but have an obtuse inability for short term compromise with eventual goals in mind . . . They categorise realists as 'sell outs' .. ..Which is their democratic right of course!

LP - Idealist . . . . respectable . . . .. but with a long term plan and a realisation that there are many points between reality & the ideal. ... each point must be reached gradually and with the will of the people.

FF - Civil war petrol pump party.... well organised .... But desparetly seeking a new identity ,,,, Right or left ? time will tell.

FG - Right wing conservative party .... The biggest danger in Irish politics. (some notable exceptions eg James O Reilly & Gay Mitchel.) ... Sole aim is to occupy 'middle Ireland'... and keep the well off ... well off.

[evercloserunion]

I don't see how they could bring Joe into the party. It would take a large shift in politics. Higgins seems a rather uncompromising man which means that in order to win him over you'd have to accommodate him and his policies. But while the SP and its far-left policies are gaining popularity, they still only attract a fraction of the support that Labour's attract so why should Labour switch?

I think Labour have a history of making political mistakes which have resulted in missed opportunities to gain ground in elections. They are now presented with the biggest opportunity in their short (post-DL) history and they won't want to miss that too. They'll be very careful to continue on their current path and won't want to make any rash moves.

I will say, though, that Labour need something in the way of help. Of the main three parties, they are the only left wing party. Although FF and FG are traditional civil war rivals, they are ideologically similar and this means that they are easily united against the left-wing threat posed by Labour. Already you can see the FGers step up their attacks on Labour. With friends like FG who needs enemies? I would suggest working more closely with other left-wing parties like SP and SF, but not going so far as to assimilate those parties. There must also be a drive to recruit grassroots members into Labour if they are to hold their own in the top three.