Sarah Carey - a tonic to Fintan O'Toole's indignity

[cactusflower]

Would disagree on the interpretation.

Carey says:

But mostly, they sulk because they think our traditional loyalty to civil war politics is a poisonous wart on the face of a respectable western democracy. They dream that one day the veil will be lifted from the masses in the great estates of Dublin and Leinster.

...

So, there is no left and right; there is a cereal shelf on which Fianna Fáil is cornflakes and Fine Gael is porridge. Labour is muesli which is just porridge with nuts and dried-up fruit. Muesli is expensive and the unemployed middle-classes can’t afford it.

But Labour still shifts between those who persist in the false dream and those who accept that a general election is simply a referendum on Fianna Fáil.

You’re either with them or against them.

[Supermanpolitician]

Does that mean that you think that her opinion is wrong?

Regards...jmcc

No. I was referring to cactusflower's interpretation. Hence my use to the quotation device.

Regards, hugs and big kisses,
SMP

[jmcc]

No. I was referring to cactusflower's interpretation. Hence my use to the quotation device.

Regards, hugs and big kisses,
SMP

Ok Sarah.
But I'm still not voting for FG.

Regards...jmcc

[lostexpectation]

she iss so regressive, such a supporter of the staus quo

[121.5]

SuperWomanPolitician = Sarah

[jmcc]

SuperWomanPolitician = Sarah

Probably not. Though SMP seems to be a rather dyed in the wool FGer.

Regards...jmcc

[Supermanpolitician]

Probably not. Though SMP seems to be a rather dyed in the wool FGer.

Regards...jmcc

Proud to be in FG. I'm not Sarah Carey, though if I lost about 9 stone, had a sex change, had my hair done.....LOL

But the real debate is what she said about Labour. Many seem to agree with her.

[Verhofstadt]

Presuming Fine Gael or Labour to stretch the point don't acheive an absolute majority enabling single party government after the next general election, Labour have three choices:

Go into coalition with FG
Go into coalition with FF
Go into opposition against a minority government and in all likelihood go to the polls again within 12 months

I would love an end to "civil war" politics (preferably caused by the total implosion of FF) but is it likely or foreseeable in any form of reality?

[Supermanpolitician]

Presuming Fine Gael or Labour to stretch the point don't acheive an absolute majority enabling single party government after the next general election, Labour have three choices:

Go into coalition with FG
Go into coalition with FF
Go into opposition against a minority government and in all likelihood go to the polls again within 12 months

I would love an end to "civil war" politics (preferably caused by the total implosion of FF) but is it likely or foreseeable in any form of reality?

I think seeing the end of FF would be a good thing. I think it is not real to say that folks vote on civil war lines at this stage. Replacing FF with Labour will only be good if Labour offer something new and different.

[blacbloc]

It seems very difficult to keep a Carey thread on topic. The zoning issue seems worth a separate thread of its own but is interrupting the flow here.

I've read her blog/article now. In terms of content and style I don't think Carey makes the transition from internet post to printed media. Her pieces are off the cuff fluff and aren't substantiated by any solid information or analysis. There are much better posts on the same theme all over the internet.

Carey says

1. Nearly everyone in Ireland is "happily middle class".
2. The rich who have lost their squillions won't vote Labour because they use scary words like "worker"
3. She says that Civil War politics will never end and it will always be FF versus "the rest".

Labour should therefore get real and row in behind Fianna Fail.

Her views are clearly not politically unbiased and are not friendly to Labour. The "friendly advice" smokescreen is not convincing.

Carey is imo genuinely missing a sea change in Irish politics. I don't think FF can weather this storm without serious cracks. They are going to be put our of local politics for years and implode on a National level.
They are party of the gravy train and we are all out of gravy.

The debate on the banks has opened up between FG and Labour.

I don't see Fianna Fail being that relevant to where we are going.

Labour has performed better in the polls every time Gilmore has come out more strongly to differentiate the party from the rest of the opposition. His own rating at 51% speaks for itself.

I think Labour has big issues to contend with, but they the opposite to what Sarah Carey suggests.

You've posted before to the effect that Irish politics looks set to split along left /right lines, taking some people from both FF and FG into the left with it - but probably fewer of the latter, it must be said. I'm sure you are right. It would be a very healthy thing for the country if this happens. The realities and consequences of neoliberal economic policies will concentrate a lot of minds over the next year or two. Councillors and TDs are meeting a different public than the one that is perceived from Kildare Street.

Either way Labour has to stop imitating Fianna Fail. There's a nettle to be grasped here in that the virulently pro business media we have will howl at any suggestion of socialism or fairness but if Labour bear with it and do it well they could generate a real shift in public perceptions even in the space of single 5 year term. Labour would be better placed in opposition to do this than they ever would be in government. They have delayed to long already in accepting that they need to play the long game. Toadying to FG or FF has served them badly but it has served Irish politics and the Irish people even worse.