Should we enter a pre-election pact with anyone?

[wiseoldred]

This may seem like an old topic now but bear with me. We have all heard about the proposed pact with FG but how do people feel about pre-election pacts with any party (ff,sf,greens,e.t.c)?[

Please comment

[Rocky]

Well a pre-election pact with SF or the greens is pointless because Labour will never get into government with either of these parties and I doubt Fianna Fail would support a pre-election pact with Labour because they think they can do a lot better then labour, so Fine Gael are your only real option.

[CJH]

Rocky, the point is not whom Lab should have a pact with, but rather whether they should have one at all. Speaking as a non-Lab person, I must say that it seems to me that a FG pact makes little sense for the Labour party - it automatically paints them as the minor party and places all the emphasis on FG. The results of this were borne out during the recent by-elections which were very bad for Lab. There was a good article in this weeks SBP to this effect. It seems too late at this stage to reverse it now though.

[ireland2004]

Would I be correct in saying a sizeable amount of Labour support would be very uncomfortable with a pact with Fine Gael?

If so I think Sinn Féin will be rewarded by dis-sattisfied(sp) Labour voters.

[wiseoldred]

Would I be correct in saying a sizeable amount of Labour support would be very uncomfortable with a pact with Fine Gael?

If so I think Sinn Féin will be rewarded by dis-sattisfied(sp) Labour voters.

It would seem so to answer your first question.

But I'm not so sure about SF been rewarded in any great way but your point is well made, someone has to.

[Rocky]

Labour vote has not gone down in recent years because of there pacts with Fine Gael, it has gone down because of what happened in 92, the lack of good young people in Labour, the rise of SF and the improvements in the Irish economy has meant less left-wing people living in Ireland.

I wouldn't call Labour performance in Meath bad, where they managed to overcome SF and come third which was the best they could have hoped for.

[wiseoldred]

Rocky, the point is not whom Lab should have a pact with, but rather whether they should have one at all. Speaking as a non-Lab person, I must say that it seems to me that a FG pact makes little sense for the Labour party - it automatically paints them as the minor party and places all the emphasis on FG. The results of this were borne out during the recent by-elections which were very bad for Lab. There was a good article in this weeks SBP to this effect. It seems too late at this stage to reverse it now though.

I would agree with all of what you have posted except the last bit. The proposed pact still has to be voted on at convention and if my feeling of the mood is right it is far from certain that it will be passed. According to information, from a very reliable source, the Parliamentary Party is far from agreement on this so it will be an interesting convention.

[CJH]

Possibly so red, but isn't it a fact that if the convention rejects this pact, they will be in effect rejecting Rabbitte's leadership. He would have to resign, and there is nobody ready to replace him in the Labour party 2 years before the election. I must say honestly that I think Rabbitte's policy is destroying the Labour party (and I wouldn't necessarily believe that this is unintentional) but there seems to be little desire in Lab to really take him on over it.

[Neutral]

Rabbitte is the ace in the pack for Labour.

If he were to resign or be heavily undermined in public by even part of his party, Labour won't be in Govt. after the election.

[BarryW]

Would I be correct in saying a sizeable amount of Labour support would be very uncomfortable with a pact with Fine Gael?

You miss the point.

Isn't it correct to say that a sizeable amount of Labour support and membership would be very uncomfortable with the slightest whiff of a coalition with FF ??
Hence Rabbittte/McManus' comprehensive victory in the leadership election.

Rabbitte's policy is for a strong pact with FG. In the unlikely event that this idea is defeated at their National Conference (May) then he will settle for a motion which expressly rules out a coalition with FF.

If he doesn't even get this much, then there will be a new Labour leader before the GE - and the wreckers, old-guard commies, sanctimonious whingers, and Labour Yoof will all have gotten their way.

An interesting point which few media commentators seem to note:
There was a better rate of transfer between FG/Lab/DL in 1992 (when Bruton was almost mortal enemies with Spring and de Rossa) than in 1997 (when they were all the best of pals and went to the country united)

Something to ponder............