Tell me if my thinking is flawed...

[PhoenixIreland]

(sorry this is so long but I need a good rant)

I hope people don't vote FF in again, even though they did last time when things were a less extreme version of what they are now.

I've decided I'll be voting FG + Labour next time, I gave both their platforms a read there a few hours ago and given a choice between a civil service pay cuts/lay offs (or even tax increases) and cutting critical basic services that are already in a third world state, it's an easy choice.
Looking at them now I think their platforms were very sound, they just did't articulate them well, with the leaders they had at the time in particular, and let themselves instead be thrown off by sarcastic FF counter arguments like "so will all 5 year olds starting today get the card or what about 4 year olds or what, and kids don't have health insurance adults do"

I know money is tighter than it was and I don't expect to have everything I'd like to see in this kind of economic climate, yet I think if your stuck in a situation where you can't pay for everything you want it's a question of priorities, an if you really want to find the funds for the most important things ,you can.
TG4 alone costs half of what it would have taken to retain those medical cards, and I think health and education should always be the last things to be cut, and if your going to cut the health budget, why not start with the supervisors of supervisors of supervisors whos only function is to put red tape between medical staff and their paitents and to suck up money that could better be spent on medical staff or paitient care.
I know health education and social welfare make up around 2/3 of the budget so if cuts won't keep them maintained I'd gladly pay higher taxes.


I last time voted left all across the board starting socialist giving transfers all the way down, intentionally excluding just FF and FG, because the parties I gave transfers to had the policies I wanted implemented.
I knew the chances of a left government being formed were low to none (and I've totally given up on the prospect now) but wanted to maximise their vote so they'd have the most negotiating power in forming a coalition.

I don't really care about green enviornmental policies considering what a dot in the ocean we are compared to the rest of the world in terms of carbon emissions etc... it was their education and health and transport plans I liked.

Yet they seem to have been so giddy at being thought of by FF as grown ups they forgot to get any real policy concessions in these areas, in fact they're doing the exact opposite of their education plans right now, did they write those 50 steps for the laugh?
I don't buy the argument the plans were based on good economic growth, everyone and their mother knew a downturn was coming.

I hear all these stories of how bad FG govts were in the 80s and how diluted they were in the 90s but Labor have a far faaaaaaar better record on education than FF do (it's because of them I could afford to go to college at all) and even considering Noonans disaster of a tenure as health minister I can't imagine how they could possibly make things any worse in that area, so I'll be voting 1 (Lab) 2 (FG) then after that probably SF, I'm still considering giving FG no1 in case Lab sell out and go in with FF.

We used to have a good economy (even though it was built on a very unstable foundation) but sh1te public services, now we have a basket case economy and sh1te public services.

So I keep hearing about the 80s...OH the 80s...the usual "when your shower were in power" argument, but it's not Spring and Fitzgerald running now, and considering how FF have run the country into the ground, I don't see how they could possibly be any worse, and maybe just maybe they have soloutions that expand beyond "cut taxes, cut spending, privatize, repeat" for every problem.

[Defeated Romanticist]

Well you leave outthe part where you say you'll vote for Fianna Fáil for one...

[PhoenixIreland]

Well you leave outthe part where you say you'll vote for Fianna Fáil for one...

When I grow to like having my medical card taken, my college fees doubled, my grants cut and being handed a bill when I go to the emergency room I'll give FF my no1 vote DR, I promise

[drbob1972]

Well you leave outthe part where you say you'll vote for Fianna Fáil for one...

thats cos he's not a babbling idiot or sycophant

[drbob1972]

I'm interested as to why you'd vote SF after FG & Lab, given that they seem to have plateaued and are largely regarded as toxic to other parties (and most decent citizens) and the fact that they are more likely to end up supporting a FF coalition than one involved FG it seems like an odd 3rd preference.....

[bradán feasa]

Maybe he doesn’t suffer from the same prejudice as you drbob1972!

[PhoenixIreland]

I'm interested as to why you'd vote SF after FG & Lab, given that they seem to have plateaued and are largely regarded as toxic to other parties (and most decent citizens) and the fact that they are more likely to end up supporting a FF coalition than one involved FG it seems like an odd 3rd preference.....

They want single-payer health care

I'll settle for the Universal Insurance option of FG and Lab but that would be my ideal, also when the people decimate the Greens someone has to make up the third party of FG and Lab dont' make it on their own.

I don't buy this "toxic" stuff, they have been in govt in NI without turning it into North Korea

[peadarmc]

Excellent post Phoenix. Very well thought out and very articulate. As for SF no.3 - to those who were asking - who would you put instead? lets see

a) Greens - likely to go in with FF (and a joke at this stage anyway!) Done so already
b) PDs - if the even exist - likely to go in with FF (done so already)
c) independents - likely to go in with FF (most have done so already)
d) SF - "possibly" go in with FF (the only party without a track record so far along with
e) Socialist Party (very unlikely to hold balance of power and remains to be seen if either Joe Higgins or Clare Daly get elected!)

[PhoenixIreland]

I'd not vote Ind because they only look after their own back yard (and my area is I think the second wealthiest constituency in the country so the last thing it needs is pork)* , if I want a crack in the road fixed I'll talk to a council member.

The Dail should be for national policies only, which is why I'd prefer a national party list system ala the Netherlands but thats another days discussion.

*which leads me to wonder how much money was spent on the areas the current govt indos represent? enough to pay for the medical cards perhaps?

[Odyessus]

(sorry this is so long but I need a good rant)

I hope people don't vote FF in again, even though they did last time when things were a less extreme version of what they are now.

I've decided I'll be voting FG + Labour next time, I gave both their platforms a read there a few hours ago and given a choice between a civil service pay cuts/lay offs (or even tax increases) and cutting critical basic services that are already in a third world state, it's an easy choice.
Looking at them now I think their platforms were very sound, they just did't articulate them well, with the leaders they had at the time in particular, and let themselves instead be thrown off by sarcastic FF counter arguments like "so will all 5 year olds starting today get the card or what about 4 year olds or what, and kids don't have health insurance adults do"

I know money is tighter than it was and I don't expect to have everything I'd like to see in this kind of economic climate, yet I think if your stuck in a situation where you can't pay for everything you want it's a question of priorities, an if you really want to find the funds for the most important things ,you can.
TG4 alone costs half of what it would have taken to retain those medical cards, and I think health and education should always be the last things to be cut, and if your going to cut the health budget, why not start with the supervisors of supervisors of supervisors whos only function is to put red tape between medical staff and their paitents and to suck up money that could better be spent on medical staff or paitient care.
I know health education and social welfare make up around 2/3 of the budget so if cuts won't keep them maintained I'd gladly pay higher taxes.


I last time voted left all across the board starting socialist giving transfers all the way down, intentionally excluding just FF and FG, because the parties I gave transfers to had the policies I wanted implemented.
I knew the chances of a left government being formed were low to none (and I've totally given up on the prospect now) but wanted to maximise their vote so they'd have the most negotiating power in forming a coalition.

I don't really care about green enviornmental policies considering what a dot in the ocean we are compared to the rest of the world in terms of carbon emissions etc... it was their education and health and transport plans I liked.

Yet they seem to have been so giddy at being thought of by FF as grown ups they forgot to get any real policy concessions in these areas, in fact they're doing the exact opposite of their education plans right now, did they write those 50 steps for the laugh?
I don't buy the argument the plans were based on good economic growth, everyone and their mother knew a downturn was coming.

I hear all these stories of how bad FG govts were in the 80s and how diluted they were in the 90s but Labor have a far faaaaaaar better record on education than FF do (it's because of them I could afford to go to college at all) and even considering Noonans disaster of a tenure as health minister I can't imagine how they could possibly make things any worse in that area, so I'll be voting 1 (Lab) 2 (FG) then after that probably SF, I'm still considering giving FG no1 in case Lab sell out and go in with FF.

We used to have a good economy (even though it was built on a very unstable foundation) but sh1te public services, now we have a basket case economy and sh1te public services.

So I keep hearing about the 80s...OH the 80s...the usual "when your shower were in power" argument, but it's not Spring and Fitzgerald running now, and considering how FF have run the country into the ground, I don't see how they could possibly be any worse, and maybe just maybe they have soloutions that expand beyond "cut taxes, cut spending, privatize, repeat" for every problem.

Your thinking is flawed.