Fergus Finlay dusts down his principles

[Aragon]

Might this signal a change of direction for Labour?

'Particiaptory democracy' is not something we have heard much of from Labour over the last decade or two. Interesting therefore that the term should fetch up in arch pragmatist and moderniser Fergus Finlay's Irish Examiner column today. The piece was a kind of starting shot for the Labour Party conference taking place this coming weekend.
Finlay gives the electorate a bollocking for voting Fianna Fail when they knew bloody well that they really ought not to and points to all the immediate and nasty consequences of bringing Bertie and his 'friends' back to horrify us for another five years. In a surprisingly leftie-ish clarion call, he argues for greater emphasis on addressing the needs of those who have not benefitted from the years of plenty. With an economic crash on the way its entirely possible that Labour have shrewdly calculated that a different hymn sheet might serve them better than bawling from Fianna Fail's has over the last 15 years or more. Have they burned their bridges? Does any true socialist feel anything other than disgust at the harlot like behaviour of Labour before corporate Ireland? If they are trying to kiss and make up, they have their work cut out for them.

Even allowing for the legitimacy of a having a change of heart (if that is really what is happening with Labour), it's still a bit much for Labour to be shaking its fist at the electorate when more than any party - by a long margin - it has done more to drive Irish politics into Fianna Fail dominated hegemony. In truth, if there are bollockings to be administered on this head then it is Labour itself that deserves the biggest of them.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexami ... y....1.asp

[Aragon]

Even allowing for the legitimacy of a having a change of heart (if that is really what is happening with Labour), it's still a bit much for Labour to be shaking its fist at the electorate when more than any party - by a long margin - it has done more to drive Irish politics into Fianna Fail dominated hegemony. In truth, if there are bollockings to be administered then it is the Labour Party itself that deserves the biggest of them.
http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexami ... y....1.asp

Actually, scrub that. The Greens have left Labour standing and lapped them fifty times over since abandoning their former 'impotence in opposition' - as they insisted on putting it - for eunuchry in government.

[red365]

Labour...has done more to drive Irish politics into Fianna Fail dominated hegemony.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexami ... y....1.asp

Don't get the logic at all. Most of the flak Rabbitte got was because he was too opposed to FF. In what way are Labour building FF up?

[Aragon]

Labour...has done more to drive Irish politics into Fianna Fail dominated hegemony.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexami ... y....1.asp

Don't get the logic at all. Most of the flak Rabbitte got was because he was too opposed to FF. In what way are Labour building FF up?

They killed off true socialism within the Labour Party - deliberately set out to murder it. They also embraced the sham known as 'Social Partnership'.

[Pax]

Might this signal a change of direction for Labour?

'Particiaptory democracy' is not something we have heard much of from Labour over the last decade or two. Interesting therefore that the term should fetch up in arch pragmatist and moderniser Fergus Finlay's Irish Examiner column today. The piece was a kind of starting shot for the Labour Party conference taking place this coming weekend.

Once it's not a version of Brown's faux participatory democracy.

an-idiots-referendum

His proposals for a new participatory democracy carry grave democratic dangers. Citizens’ juries are an excellent tool for direct decision-making: when a small group of people needs to make a decision which affects only that group. If everyone joined one and the results were collated on a national scale, they could also be an excellent tool for democratising national decision-making. But this is not what Brown proposes. He speaks of a “Citizens Summit, composed of a representative sample of the British people”, which will be asked to formulate a British statement of values, and “a nationwide set of Citizens Juries” in which “representatives assembled from every constituency” will help to shape policies on crime, immigration, education, health, transport and public services(4). In what sense will these samples be representative? Will we be allowed to vote for these people? It looks like an opaque amalgam of representative and participatory processes, selecting the most dangerous aspects of both.

Prediction on Labour's past history - it will be.

[Aragon]

Might this signal a change of direction for Labour?

'Particiaptory democracy' is not something we have heard much of from Labour over the last decade or two. Interesting therefore that the term should fetch up in arch pragmatist and moderniser Fergus Finlay's Irish Examiner column today. The piece was a kind of starting shot for the Labour Party conference taking place this coming weekend.

Once it's not a version of Brown's faux participatory democracy.

an-idiots-referendum

His proposals for a new participatory democracy carry grave democratic dangers. Citizens’ juries are an excellent tool for direct decision-making: when a small group of people needs to make a decision which affects only that group. If everyone joined one and the results were collated on a national scale, they could also be an excellent tool for democratising national decision-making. But this is not what Brown proposes. He speaks of a “Citizens Summit, composed of a representative sample of the British people”, which will be asked to formulate a British statement of values, and “a nationwide set of Citizens Juries” in which “representatives assembled from every constituency” will help to shape policies on crime, immigration, education, health, transport and public services(4). In what sense will these samples be representative? Will we be allowed to vote for these people? It looks like an opaque amalgam of representative and participatory processes, selecting the most dangerous aspects of both.

Prediction on Labour's past history - it will be.

Good quote. This all sounds like another bs, lying way of defining government appointed quangos. It was Thatcher who reeeeelly got the qunago ball rolling - and UK Labour have been as misty-eyed adolescents before her altar ever since. Well, it's s**t-hits-fan time here in Ireland. If the Irish Labour Party are looking across the water for inspiration then they are complete fools. The UK is no model for anyone anymore.

Was it ever?

[soubresauts]

... If the Irish Labour Party are looking across the water for inspiration then they are complete fools. The UK is no model for anyone anymore.

Was it ever?

I don't know. What I do know is that the Greens in Britain haven't sold out like the Irish Greens have.

[odie1kanobe]

I don't know. What I do know is that the Greens in Britain haven't sold out like the Irish Greens have.

Greens in UK have as much influence on Govt as a burst balloon. Principles are fine when in opposition.

[Aragon]

Wonder who'll get this job!

http://www.labour.ie/jobs/

[Sonny O'Neill]

Might this signal a change of direction for Labour?

'Particiaptory democracy' is not something we have heard much of from Labour over the last decade or two. Interesting therefore that the term should fetch up in arch pragmatist and moderniser Fergus Finlay's Irish Examiner column today. The piece was a kind of starting shot for the Labour Party conference taking place this coming weekend.
Finlay gives the electorate a bollocking for voting Fianna Fail when they knew bloody well that they really ought not to and points to all the immediate and nasty consequences of bringing Bertie and his 'friends' back to horrify us for another five years. In a surprisingly leftie-ish clarion call, he argues for greater emphasis on addressing the needs of those who have not benefitted from the years of plenty. With an economic crash on the way its entirely possible that Labour have shrewdly calculated that a different hymn sheet might serve them better than bawling from Fianna Fail's has over the last 15 years or more. Have they burned their bridges? Does any true socialist feel anything other than disgust at the harlot like behaviour of Labour before corporate Ireland? If they are trying to kiss and make up, they have their work cut out for them.

Even allowing for the legitimacy of a having a change of heart (if that is really what is happening with Labour), it's still a bit much for Labour to be shaking its fist at the electorate when more than any party - by a long margin - it has done more to drive Irish politics into Fianna Fail dominated hegemony. In truth, if there are bollockings to be administered on this head then it is Labour itself that deserves the biggest of them.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/irishexami ... y....1.asp

Fungus wd have a lot more credibility if he didn't spend so much time arse licking and brown nosing FF ministers to get more money for Barnardos.

He's a ************************kin hypocrite.