Time for New Labour?

[FutureTaoiseach]

Yes this is what is needed if their party is to branch out beyond its 10% ceiling in GE's - though the term "free market socialism" is clearly an oxymoron, Iago. If they stop using outdated Marxist language like "Socialist" or demonising the private-sector, and indeed if they embrace the private-sector like New Labour did by changing Clause 4, then they can start to broaden their appeal. But I don't think they will - far too many Cold War veterans in that party who frolicked with Moscow at one time.

[iago]

I deliberately chose that oxymoron to show that New Labour blurred the lines between old fashioned marxist socialist beliefs and a new way of advancing social justice, by offering equality of opportunity not attempting to dictate equality of outcome. we must encourage our best qualities as individuals to improve our community as a whole.
why condemn a taller man who can pick apples from high branches for everyone? surely he deserves an apple or two extra for helping us all out?

[scitilop]

Iago why are you so interested in labour becoming new labour? Surely your time should be devoted to salvaging your wreck of a party rather than worrying about a party that is 1000% bigger

[Akrasia]

free market socialism

Now there are 3 words that never belong together.

Either you don't know what socialism is, or you don't know what free markets are (but i suspect it's both)

[locke]

On a slightly more practical level, I'm not sure that in a multi-party pseudo-PR system it would have the same effect as it had for Labour in the two-party first past the post system in the UK.

In theory Labour could shift to the right and still pick up whatever votes it lost to SF, The Socialists, The Worker's Party etc. from transfers resulting in a greater number of seats. However, that risks Sinn Fein outpolling Labour in an increasing number of constituencies and if Sinn Fein's vote went above Labour's, it would be disaster time.

[Akrasia]

why condemn a taller man who can pick apples from high branches for everyone? surely he deserves an apple or two extra for helping us all out?

Why?

Nobody is suggesting the tall man should be condemned, But why dies he deserve more reward just because of his natural ability in one particular area? And Capitalism doesn't give the tall man 'one or two apples extra' It allows him to keep all of the apples on the higher branches for himself to sell to people who aren't tall enough to reach them. He doesn't 'help society out' he helps himself out.

[iago]

free market socialism

Now there are 3 words that never belong together.

Either you don't know what socialism is, or you don't know what free markets are (but i suspect it's both)

please read my post above. the purpose of using those words together is to show that our textbook definitions and seperately boxed notions are outdated. there is no one right answer. as with most things in life a combination would prove most fruitful for everyone. stop being comfortable in understanding old ideas. seek new ones. its time to be innovative not blinded by zeal. Labour has stalled, that is admitted by everyone, so where to next?

[roth ramach]

i think we coud ignore iago's comments. i would prefer to be the target of such nonsense than to be the author.

[roth ramach]

is aigo suggesting a merger between the pds and labour?

[iago]

cycle away little boy.