This is as much aimed at socialists in general as it is to the Labour Party. Why such a love affair with the working class? Even if you can identify the working class (which is becoming hard to do), they are not voting for you. Once the working class has all the mod cons they consider themselves as middle class. The poor, in general, don't bother with voting. Socialsim as an economic model seems dead on its feet. Unionism is waning. Why do youse even bother any more?
A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves. (B. de Jouvenel)
The working class do vote just not for Labour.
Liquidate labour, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate.
There is no such thing as "class" it’s a term used to categorize people whom hold smaller financial status in an attempt to demean & demoralize them and for it to give a feeling of well-being and superiority to those that are on higher incomes.
The term "working-class" is often applied to those that live in slums, DONT work, sell drugs and appear in court on a regular basis! Yet a person of my social status, works 5 days a week, pay's taxes, never in trouble with the law is also branded as been "working-class" despite possibly being on a higher income than a lot of so called “middle class”
So why should I accept to be held in the same regard as a low-life waster for the benefit of snotty nosed supercilious ******************************s????
Consider it rude, the support of economic sovereignty for which your German masters have no say.
Ok, so defining the class is problematic. Nevertheless, many posters use the term and must identify some part of the population with it. Obviously the Labour party, and to some extent socialists, were formed as parties to represent the working man and woman. Likewise, unions were formed to represent the working man and woman. Also these parties have often represented the interests of the less well off in general.
Yet, it seems at every turn, the working people either do the opposite of what is best for them or just ignore the whole political game. Is there any point in staying a socialist or labour rep?
A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves. (B. de Jouvenel)
I'm drowning in ignorance here.
Since I'm skipping out early, can I suggest that you begin by even just looking up the concept of working class on wikipedia. It's not a great definition but it would give youse a start. If you're genuinely interested I'll be back Monday to begin lessons.
And considering, by the way, the number of left and openly socialist governments coming to power in the last four opr five years, we're doing okay thanks very much. It's a marathon, not a sprint.
lesbehan Posted:
Couldn't agree more. I also am a beleiver in the classless society although I probably come from slightly different school of thought. I also find it hilarious that those portrayed as working class very often don't actually work. The point remains valid though labour are a snob party who perpetuate inequity.There is no such thing as "class" it’s a term used to categorize people whom hold smaller financial status in an attempt to demean & demoralize them and for it to give a feeling of well-being and superiority to those that are on higher incomes.
The term "working-class" is often applied to those that live in slums, DONT work, sell drugs and appear in court on a regular basis! Yet a person of my social status, works 5 days a week, pay's taxes, never in trouble with the law is also branded as been "working-class" despite possibly being on a higher income than a lot of so called “middle class”
So why should I accept to be held in the same regard as a low-life waster for the benefit of snotty nosed supercilious ******************************s????
Liquidate labour, liquidate stocks, liquidate the farmers, liquidate real estate.
If someone labelled me as working class I would be highly offended.... By no means would I regard myself as middleclass either!
That’s the problem with society today... to much emphasis on categorising and labelling people. Also Rockycoon, if the term "Working class" does exactly what it says on the tin... well then what is middle class???? Dolers??
Consider it rude, the support of economic sovereignty for which your German masters have no say.
No commentOriginally Posted by cain1798
I'll be waiting in the long grass
C'mon. Labour in England? As about as socialist as Bertie is honest.
France - no longer. The list would go on. Even those who call them socialist don't practice socialist policies. Dear God even Bertie calls himself a socialist.
As for the classless society. You've got to be joking. This is an invention of capitalists PR firms. They don't want various socio-economic grouping to sympathise with each other. They want everybody to consider themselves as one class - The Consumer.
A society of sheep must in time beget a government of wolves. (B. de Jouvenel)
Definitions
Definitions of social classes reflect a number of sociological perspectives, informed by anthropology, economics, psychology and sociology. The major perspectives historically have been Marxism and Functionalism.
The parameters which define working class depend on the schema used to define social class. For example, a simple stratum model of class might divide society into a simple hierarchy of lower class, middle class and upper class with working class not specifically designated.
Due to the political interest in the working class, debate has been raging over the nature of the working class since the early 19th century. Two broad schools of definitions emerge, those aligned with 20th century sociological stratum models of class society, and those aligned with the 19th century historical materialism economic models of the Marxists and Anarchists.
As the concept of the working class is important in Marxist, Anarchist and Socialist thought, there is a great deal of political interest in the precise definition of who the working class is. Key points of commonality amongst various ideas include the idea that there is one working class, even though it may be internally divided. The idea of one single working class should be contrasted with 18th century conceptions of many laboring classes.
Marxist Definition
Karl Marx defined the "working class" or proletariat as the multitude of individuals who sell their labor power for wages and do not own the means of production, and he believed them responsible for creating the wealth of a society.
For example, the members of this class physically build bridges, craft furniture, fix cars, grow food, and nurse children, but do not themselves own the land, factories or means of production. A sub-section of the proletariat, the lumpenproletariat (rag-proletariat,) are the extremely poor and unemployed, such as day laborers and the homeless).
Marx himself argued that it was the destiny of the working class to displace the capitalist system with socialism, changing the social relationships underpinning the class system and then developing into a future classless and stateless communist society in which: "..the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." Communist Manifesto.
Key issues in Marxist arguments about working class membership include:
Those in a temporary or permanent position of unemployment.
Domestic labor, particularly the children and traditionally, also the wives of male workers who do not themselves work paying jobs outside the home.
Whether the term includes ownership of personal property.
Whether the term includes ownership of housing.
Whether the term includes self-employment.
The class position of students in society.
The Answers are:
Unemployed workers are proletariat.
Class for dependents is determined by primary income earner.
Personal property is clearly different than private property
The proletariat can own houses, this is personal property.
The self-employed worker may be a member of the petite bourgeoisie (for example a highly paid professional, athlete, etc), or a member of the proletariat (for example a contract worker whose income may be relatively high but is precarious).
Students are dependent on family's class background and whether or not they are still dependent on them.
In general, in Marxist terms, wage laborers and those dependent on the welfare state are working class and those who live on accumulated capital and/or exploit the labor of others are not. This dichotomy defines the class struggle as such with respect to which different fine strata or individuals may at any given time be on one side or the other. For example retired factory workers are working class in the obvious sense but to the extent they live off fixed incomes financed by stock in corporations whose earnings are profit extracted from current workers are not.
Consider it rude, the support of economic sovereignty for which your German masters have no say.
Society is judged by how it treats its weakest members. Historically this was the working class who were usually less well educated, labour was founded to give a voice to those without a voice.
Its irrelevant if the voiceless don't vote for you, if the left are to maintain the moral high ground they so enjoy then they have to keep campaingning for those in society they view with the greatest need. Otherwsie they might aswell join FG or FF and campaign for people of similar needs to themselves
LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks
Reply With Quote