Labour to cut standard rate of tax to 18%

[hiker]

I'd like to extend a big fáilte to Pat and the people in the Labour Party for finally seeing the light and coming over to sensible liberal low tax economic policy.

I admit I was kinda jittery about having to fight the election on health & crime with easy tabloid headlines being enough to throw the electorate off the great work Mary & Mick are doing.

Now taxation as an election issue, well now you're talking our language and we're playing in a venue we're very familiar with. Bring it on!!

In fairness, the PDs still haven't come over to Labour on social liberalism.

In fairness, thats what the Labour Party is there for. I have on occasion voted Labour in the past for social issues.

That wasn't the story when I joined the PDs. Remember taking God out of the constitution? Seperation of church and state? Divorce?

"I stand by the republic" wasn't about economics.

Jaysus Shepard, we won that fight so long ago, I can hardly remember it.
Standing by the Republic is now a given. I instinctively think that way without being even concious of it.

We have moved on. There are other issues now, most of them economic. The social liberal agenda of divorce, seperation of church and state and so on are not even issues anymore.

We cannot rely on the memories of oldies like us to keep us in government.

[dealmachtigeier]

I'd like to extend a big fáilte to Pat and the people in the Labour Party for finally seeing the light and coming over to sensible liberal low tax economic policy.

I admit I was kinda jittery about having to fight the election on health & crime with easy tabloid headlines being enough to throw the electorate off the great work Mary & Mick are doing.

Now taxation as an election issue, well now you're talking our language and we're playing in a venue we're very familiar with. Bring it on!!

In fairness, the PDs still haven't come over to Labour on social liberalism.

In fairness, thats what the Labour Party is there for. I have on occasion voted Labour in the past for social issues.

That wasn't the story when I joined the PDs. Remember taking God out of the constitution? Seperation of church and state? Divorce?

"I stand by the republic" wasn't about economics.

Jaysus Shepard, we won that fight so long ago, I can hardly remember it.
Standing by the Republic is now a given. I instinctively think that way without being even concious of it.

We have moved on. There are other issues now, most of them economic. The social liberal agenda of divorce, seperation of church and state and so on are not even issues anymore.

We cannot rely on the memories of oldies like us to keep us in government.

But if the PDs can keep harping on about how they were right about our tax and exonomics in the 80s surely they can keep harping on about how they were right about the 80s liberal social agenda!

The issues that are occupying Europe at the moment, and that should be occupying Ireland (note that there are both econimic and social facets to them) are:

1. Migration Who do we let in? What are they going to do here? How will the integrate?

2. Our greying population How are we going to pay for our pensions? Is it right that we get thrown on the scrap heap at 65? What can we do, as healthy individuals, after we've reached 65? How can we appreciate our old people more?

3. Ecology How can we reconcile the need to maintain a prosperous economy with the need to ensure a quality of life, ecologically speaking, for ourselves into old age and for our children?

4. Able citizens How can we create the kind of opportunities our people need so they become a community of able citizens? How can we empower them to achieve their potential?

These are the questions that a liberal party who is socially, as well as economically, aware needs to provide answers to!

[dealmachtigeier]

But if the PDs can keep harping on about how they were right about our tax and exonomics in the 80s surely they can keep harping on about how they were right about the 80s liberal social agenda!

The issues that are occupying Europe at the moment, and that should be occupying Ireland (note that there are both econimic and social facets to them) are:

1. Migration Who do we let in? What are they going to do here? How will the integrate?

2. Our greying population How are we going to pay for our pensions? Is it right that we get thrown on the scrap heap at 65? What can we do, as healthy individuals, after we've reached 65? How can we appreciate our old people more?

3. Ecology How can we reconcile the need to maintain a prosperous economy with the need to ensure a quality of life, ecologically speaking, for ourselves into old age and for our children?

4. Able citizens How can we create the kind of opportunities our people need so they become a community of able citizens? How can we empower them to achieve their potential?

These are the questions that a liberal party who is socially, as well as economically, aware needs to provide answers to!

I want to add a 5th...

5. Differently composed families How can we improve the lot of one parent families? What suport structures should there be in order to ensure they can support their children? How are we generally to combine work and family in the future? Are non-traditional family structures supported enough?

[Corcaigh33]

I think Rabbitte's performance was exceptional, proof being everyone is talking about the tax cut.

His speech was brilliant, ticked all boxes, sounded very Labour but with something for the non-traditional Labour voter - the whole "are you happy? / quality of life" gig.

It was especially brilliant in that it left him with so much wiggle room it was unreal.

"Given available resources...." i.e. if the resources are not available we might not be able to cut 2% off the bottom rate and might have to raise the upper rate.

"I have left the door ajar, the answer is no....." No mention of FF at all. No Never, Never, Never !!!

I think this was a masterpiece of positioning by Rabbitte - dis-associating himself to a degree from FG - only one mention - clearly attacking PD's to edge them out.....basically it amounted to a "your place or mine?" to FF.

[woodie]

Labour's plan would see a single taxpayer earning the average industrial wage (currently about €32,000) gain over €600 a year whereas they'd gain nothing on the FF/PDs plan to reduce the top rate from 41 to 40%.

In fact, a single taxpayer would have to earn €40,000 before the FF/PDs plan would be worth anything to you, and then only €60 a year!. In contrast, such a taxpayer would gain €680 with Labour.

Labour's proposals are progressive and fair.

[caractacus]

Do you really think so Corcaigh? Or are you Pat Rabbittes wife? Frankly everyone in our house, which would be a Labour oriented group of people in the main, with me as a notable leftward exception, thought that the main thing on display was Pat's primary attribute....his over-weening ambition to get a seat in Government.

Its obvious that Pat will do or say just about ANYTHING to get himself a Cabinet position....That tax cut just don't make political sense everyone I spoke to this morning thinks 'yeah sounds great , but how do you pay for the increased spending your promising too?'....This will come back to haunt them as the FF/PD bootboys do a job on the Maths.

Promising tax-cuts and calling for increased government expenditure has not a happy track record in other jurisdictions, the proponents usually get some serious and over deserved scrutiny.

The biggest mistake that Pat has made has been to tie himself to the apron strings of the blue-shirts, many many Labour voters do not relish Kenny in power, he's as right wing as the PD's if you scratch him, and Rabbitte has sold his soul to the blue-shirt devil for a seat at the table, not an appealing proposition at all...

[Salthill]

Labour's plan would see a single taxpayer earning the average industrial wage (currently about €32,000) gain over €600 a year whereas they'd gain nothing on the FF/PDs plan to reduce the top rate from 41 to 40%.

In fact, a single taxpayer would have to earn €40,000 before the FF/PDs plan would be worth anything to you, and then only €60 a year!. In contrast, such a taxpayer would gain €680 with Labour.

Labour's proposals are progressive and fair.

First of allm there is no FF/PD 'plan' - there is a cut which Labour says it will not touch, so please drop that nonsense.

Labour's plan will give a tax cut of over 600 pa to those on the high rate, those near the maximum of the standard rate, less to those earning less and on the standard rate and absolutely zero to 40% of the population, especially the poorest.

It is regressive and a major policy departure which flies in the face of everythign Labour have espoused in the past.

A joke, which firmly leaves the left open to SF and anyone else who is willing to have a hint of radicalism.

[Corcaigh33]

Just to be clear, when I said it was a masterpiece of positioning I didn't mean it to be taken as a compliment to Pat Rabbitte from a Labour point of view.

What I mean is this : Any interview you see Pat Rabbitte on or any Q&A - if there is one thing he is brilliant at it's pedantics. His speech on Saturday leaves him with loads of wiggle room and very few commentators and certainly very few members of the party in the Helix seem to have copped on to it.

He did not rule out government with Fianna Fáil.
He said he would make the 2% tax cut given available resources.

If asked by Bowman in 18 months time how he reconciles being in government with FF and not making the tax cut based on Saturday's speech he can always do his usual routine of : "Actually if you read what I said and I happen to have it here in front of me..........."

I am not a Pat Rabbitte fan - my earlier post was complimenting him on a very astute and carefully crafted speech which was all things to all people - hmmm wonder where he got that idea from? :wink:

[FutureLabourLeader]

Just to be clear, when I said it was a masterpiece of positioning I didn't mean it to be taken as a compliment to Pat Rabbitte from a Labour point of view.

What I mean is this : Any interview you see Pat Rabbitte on or any Q&A - if there is one thing he is brilliant at it's pedantics. His speech on Saturday leaves him with loads of wiggle room and very few commentators and certainly very few members of the party in the Helix seem to have copped on to it.

He did not rule out government with Fianna Fáil.
He said he would make the 2% tax cut given available resources.

If asked by Bowman in 18 months time how he reconciles being in government with FF and not making the tax cut based on Saturday's speech he can always do his usual routine of : "Actually if you read what I said and I happen to have it here in front of me..........."

I am not a Pat Rabbitte fan - my earlier post was complimenting him on a very astute and carefully crafted speech which was all things to all people - hmmm wonder where he got that idea from? :wink:

It would be economic lunacy to commit ourselves unconditionally to a 2% tax cut if the resources weren't there. What Pat said was if we can we will. It would take some eejit to say we'll give ye a tax cut come hell or high water even if the country can't afford it.

[Salthill]

Just to be clear, when I said it was a masterpiece of positioning I didn't mean it to be taken as a compliment to Pat Rabbitte from a Labour point of view.

What I mean is this : Any interview you see Pat Rabbitte on or any Q&A - if there is one thing he is brilliant at it's pedantics. His speech on Saturday leaves him with loads of wiggle room and very few commentators and certainly very few members of the party in the Helix seem to have copped on to it.

He did not rule out government with Fianna Fáil.
He said he would make the 2% tax cut given available resources.

If asked by Bowman in 18 months time how he reconciles being in government with FF and not making the tax cut based on Saturday's speech he can always do his usual routine of : "Actually if you read what I said and I happen to have it here in front of me..........."

I am not a Pat Rabbitte fan - my earlier post was complimenting him on a very astute and carefully crafted speech which was all things to all people - hmmm wonder where he got that idea from? :wink:

It would be economic lunacy to commit ourselves unconditionally to a 2% tax cut if the resources weren't there. What Pat said was if we can we will. It would take some eejit to say we'll give ye a tax cut come hell or high water even if the country can't afford it.

Why did he not promise to ensure equal money for the 40% who don't pay or the ensure no claw-back through failure to index allowances?