Imprisonment for Debt

[toxic avenger]

This is a shocking statement to have to make:

Maurice Manning said it was a human rights issue about which the commission was extremely concerned.
Addressing the annual general meeting of the Irish Association of Social Workers, Mr Manning said the commission had in January been granted leave to appear as amicus curiae in a court case concerning possible imprisonment for civil debt, under the Enforcement of Court Orders Acts 1926-1940.
“We applied to the High Court to seek liberty to appear in the proceedings on account of the human rights issues in the case, including the principles outlined under the European Convention on Human Rights that ‘No one shall be deprived of his liberty merely on the ground of an inability to fulfil a contractual obligation.’ ”
This right was also enunciated in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, he said.
“The commission considers that this case raises an important issue around imprisonment for debt, which, in worsening economic times, is likely to be an issue which will affect more and more people.

Imprisonment over debt likely to increase, warns Manning - The Irish Times - Sat, Apr 25, 2009


Now I can understand imprisonment for contempt where a debtor is just playing silly buggers. But this seems to imply that now, in the 21st Century, Ireland is jailing people who are simply unable to pay. And the UN has had to speak to Ireland on the issue. Manning seems to be of the opinion that it will increase over the next couple of years as people are hit by the recession. This isn't possible, surely, not in a supposedly modern civilised country? Is it?

[Digout]

This isn't possible, surely, not in a supposedly modern civilised country? Is it?

Correct, its not. Now to find a modern civilised country....

[cyberianpan]

I think we'd have to see more detail here

The UN called on the Government last year “to ensure that its laws are not used to imprison a person for the inability to fulfil a contractual obligation”, he said.

So what if I took out a loan , knowing I could never repay it ? That would be akin to theft - now you might say the lender was sloppy - but if I knew I couldn't repay then I would be to blame.

cYp

[Digout]

I think we'd have to see more detail here



So what if I took out a loan , knowing I could never repay it ? That would be akin to theft - now you might say the lender was sloppy - but if I knew I couldn't repay then I would be to blame.

cYp

It all depends on what class you are from.

[mothball]

It’s the typical Irish ‘cute hoor’ way of convicting them for failure to pay off a debt. If you can’t get them for that, do them for something else. It’s a disgusting and unsympathetic system that is completely irrational. How is it sensible to lock someone up for being unable to pay? It’s a purely malicious act designed to keep people in their place.

No such thing as imprisonment for debt, claims government » News : FLAC (Free Legal Advice Centres)

"UN Committee said today that the Irish government's explanation of how people are jailed for debt in Ireland was "not entirely convincing"."

"Mr Sean Aylward claimed that imprisonment for debt in Ireland does not exist. He explained that people were imprisoned only for contempt of court, not for non-payment of debt."

"Reacting in Dublin today, FLAC Senior Policy Researcher Paul Joyce said: "We can suggest ways that the percentage of people in prison for debt-related offences might be substantially reduced or eliminated. The initial hearing at which a decision is made to order repayment of a debt by instalments is often not attended by the debtor, as that hearing is in open public court and attendance is not compulsory. This usually results in an instalment being ordered that the debtor cannot afford. This in turn leads to default in payment and a further application to have the debtor imprisoned. The debtor will usually not appear at this hearing either, having at this stage well and truly opted out of what is a long-winded and intimidating process."

[toxic avenger]

I think we'd have to see more detail here



So what if I took out a loan , knowing I could never repay it ? That would be akin to theft - now you might say the lender was sloppy - but if I knew I couldn't repay then I would be to blame.

cYp

That's what security is for. I know myself, from having lived through occasional times as a kid with literally no money or dole or anything (and occasionally no food) how desperate the situation can be, and no-one should be imprisoned in such a situation. If there is fraud, that's another matter, and one in which there should be mitigation in cases like sheer desperation. But, in general, the idea that such law is still on the statute is mindbogglingly jarring.

[Staropramen]

This will be aimed at the Irish working class. As always, and still they do not mobilise.

[Pauli]

That's what security is for. I know myself, from having lived through occasional times as a kid with literally no money or dole or anything (and occasionally no food) how desperate the situation can be, and no-one should be imprisoned in such a situation. If there is fraud, that's another matter, and one in which there should be mitigation in cases like sheer desperation. But, in general, the idea that such law is still on the statute is mindbogglingly jarring.

Yeah but if I owed, say, €87 million to some institution or other, it wouldn't apply to me, right? I'd still be able to leave the country, come and go as I please, play golf in Marbella, that sort of thing, right?

The law was designed with others in mind, right?

[Elvis Parsley]

Yeah but if I owed, say, €87 million to some institution or other, it wouldn't apply to me, right? I'd still be able to leave the country, come and go as I please, play golf in Marbella, that sort of thing, right?

The law was designed with others in mind, right?

This wouldn't apply to the 50 that put the whole country into debt

[Pauli]

This wouldn't apply to the 50 that put the whole country into debt

Thanks for the clarification, Elvis.