Irish Mirror Exclusive - Izevbekhai FGM story a lie

[Horace Horse]

Well, it would be absolutely pointless legislation but if it would send out a message fine.

I say pointless in the sense that it would already be an offence under the non-fatal offences against the person act. It would be a serious assault.

In response to a poster above, you can actually criminalise an offence committed abroad by someone within the Jurisdiction. Sex tourism is an offence even though you would not commit it here you can be prosecuted here for it. You could apply the same extra territorial principle to FGM if that would also send a signal. If parents resident here took their child, for "cultural" reason's abroad to have them mutilated you could prosecute them here on return.

No, the best thing would be to deny them entry back into our countrry. We don't need mutilators in ireland, thank you very much, pace Rosanna Hopi.

[Horace Horse]

Ah, you're being facetious, aren't you?
But, to address the issue - do you have any objection to an ambassador telling a blatant untruth to the Irish people? Do you think we should react to such a thing?

The Israeli Ambassador was telling strings of lies a few months back.

Did you let out even a squeak?

Hypocrite.

[Schuhart]

Ah, you're being facetious, aren't you?

Not completely. I really do detest the Nigerian Ambassador's glasses frames. I wonder if the massive 'DG' letters glow in the dark.

But, to address the issue - do you have any objection to an ambassador telling a blatant untruth to the Irish people? Do you think we should react to such a thing?

Or is your sense of justice somewhat selective?

Well, I think we have to judge a diplomat's testimony on a different basis.

If an individual Nigerian comes here with false papers and a bogus story, I don't necessarily judge the whole of Nigeria by that single fact. All that has happened is an individual has attempted a fraud, and all that needs to happen is action to ensure the individual does not profit from that fraud. Clearly there might also be a deterrent element here. If we tolerate one fraud, then obviously we are encouraging others.

On the other hand, the Nigerian Ambassador is here representing her Government. So with her I'm more likely to judge her Government by her statements, in much the same way as international bankers might judge Ireland on the basis of statements by Brian Lenihan. So, indeed, I'm terribly impressed by the kind of person who gets to be Nigerian Ambassador to Ireland, as I've already said. But that doesn't change the key facts of this case.

The key facts of this case involve a bogus asylum-seeker duping elements of our journalist community and various other worthies. The key story is that those Irish worthies are just as reluctant to admit they made a plain error as the Irish worthies in our banking sector.

That's what I'm really taking out of this story - the detachment of our elites from any sense of reality or responsibility. Apparently we should leave them off the mailing list of anything that isn't a life-affirming experience. How someone who'd spend quite so much money on hideous glasses gets to be Nigerian Ambassador I find to be only of passing interest.

[Schuhart]

You won't be answering the question then? Fair'nuf.

No, its answered. Very clearly. The two matters don't equate, so there is no equivalent 'sense of justice' to be applied.

Do I take it you don't like seeing this point evaporating before your very eyes? It would be much more pleasant, presumably, if the Nigerian Ambassador's cant could in some way cancel PI's fraud. But, as you can see, it doesn't.

[supamolli]

Nothing of the kind. I simply wished to expose the way many posters are agenda-driven and want PI deported because they are afraid of what she and her children represent and not out of any duty to justice or law.
The truth will set you free.

PI has been unable to provide new evidence to back up her claims, now that her previous evidence has been shown to be bogus. Do you know of any evidence?

So far all we have is people like Hopi Watcher who seem to think that prevalence alone is a ground for asylum when it isn't.

If it was then every women in China could come here because forced sterilisation is prevalent in China. A specific threat is also required.

Has PI been able to provide any evidence of a specific threat?

[Ulster-Lad]

UNHCR | Refworld | Operational Guidance Note: Nigeria

3.9 Female Genital Mutilation (FGM)
3.9.1 Some female applicants may seek asylum on the basis that they, or their children, would be forcibly required by family members to undergo female genital mutilation (FGM) if they were to return to Nigeria.

3.9.2 Treatment. FGM is a cultural tradition that is widely practised in Nigeria. The Nigeria Demographic and Health Survey (NDHS) estimated that approximately 19% of the female population has been subject to FGM, although the incidence has reportedly declined steadily in recent years. While practised in all parts of the country, FGM is reportedly much more prevalent in the south among the Yoruba and Igbo. Women from northern states are
reportedly less likely to undergo the severe type of FGM known as infibulation. The age at which women and girls are subjected to the practise varies from the first week of life until after a woman delivers her first child; however, three-quarters of the NDHS 2003 survey respondents who had undergone FGM had been subjected to it before their first birthday.

3.9.3 Sufficiency of protection. The Federal Government publicly opposes FGM, but in 2008 took no legal action to curb the practice. Bayelsa, Edo, Ogun, Cross River, Osun, and Rivers states have banned FGM, but non-governmental organisations (NGOs) have reportedly found it difficult to convince the local government area authorities that state laws were applicable in their districts. The Ministry of Health, women’s groups, and many NGOs have sponsored public awareness projects to educate communities about the health hazards of FGM. They have worked to eradicate the practice, but financial and logistical obstacles remain.

3.9.4 Internal relocation. The Nigerian constitution provides for the right to travel within the country and the Federal Government generally respects this right in practice. Internal relocation to escape ill-treatment from non-state agents is almost always an option. In the absence of exceptional circumstances, it would not be unduly harsh for any individual in this category, whether or not they have family or other ties in any new location, to internally relocate to escape this threat.

3.9.5 Conclusion. Whilst protection and/or assistance is available from governmental and non-governmental sources, this is limited. Those who are unable or, owing to fear, unwilling to avail themselves of the protection of the authorities, can safely relocate to another part of Nigeria where the family members who are pressurising them to undergo FGM would be unlikely to be able to trace them. Women in this situation would if they choose to do so, also be able to seek assistance from women’s NGOs in the new location. The grant of asylum or Humanitarian Protection is unlikely therefore to be appropriate and such claims should be certified as clearly unfounded.

This from the UN that some often cite here.

[jmcc]

The key facts of this case involve a bogus asylum-seeker duping elements of our journalist community and various other worthies. The key story is that those Irish worthies are just as reluctant to admit they made a plain error as the Irish worthies in our banking sector.

The reaction of what passes for the Irish media to this case has been very interesting. Boucher-Hayes is apparently the head of RTE Radio's Investigative Unit and yet he was quite clearly duped and did not follow simple journalistic rules such as verifying that you are talking to the right person. As for Antonia Leslie - she's just a Sindo columnist so the standard is somewhat lower than it would be for an investigative journalist.

The reality of the situation in Ireland is that there is very little investigative journalism. A lot of those in the Irish media who were duped will seek to reinvent themselves as born again hard investigative journalists. They will begin to claim that they were never fooled. Sometimes I wonder if the Irish media is just a typo for Irish mediocrity.

Regards...jmcc

[Ulster-Lad]

It's published by the UK Home Office / UK Border Agency, hardly an innocent bystander. The UK asylum assessment criteria are hardly relevant to this debate unless you want to include this -
House of Lords to recognise as a refugee a woman who fled female genital mutilation.

Are you saying they are plagerising the UNHCR letterhead and the UNHCR had no imput into this document with their symbols and embloms on it?

[Ulster-Lad]

The link is also to the UNHCR website. The Brits may have wrote the report but it appears the UNHCR adopted it.

[Ulster-Lad]

From the same website.......

Refworld Policy Collection
The policy collection consists of mainly UNHCR policy documents, although contributions from other sources are continually added to the collection. Policy information is useful to provide guidance to decision makers. The majority of the documents in the collection cover asylum policy on countries, specific situations or thematic/subject matter based issues.