Irelands Judicial System

[kittyn]

Anyone here agree that our justice system needs to be looked at with regards to sentencing etc. A man with two previous rape convictions who then commits a third and he gets 13 years and god knows will be out in much less to commit another crime? Anyone agree with Justice Paul Carneys statement that he would enforce life if he could?

Any thoughts?

[seabhcan]

Anyone here agree that our justice system needs to be looked at with regards to sentencing etc. A man with two previous rape convictions who then commits a third and he gets 13 years and god knows will be out in much less to commit another crime? Anyone agree with Justice Paul Carneys statement that he would enforce life if he could?

Any thoughts?

We need alternatives to prison.

I'd like to see a return of corporal punishment. It is used in Singapore to great effect.

But if your talking about manditory sentencing, that is a disaster as it takes power over sentencing from the judge and effectively gives it to the prosecuting barrister.

[Andrew49]

When he hands down sentences, Judge Carney -- who hears seven out of 10 rape cases and over 50pc of all murder trials in the State -- often makes explicit references to the jurisprudence of the CCA. And in return, the CCA has publicly noted Carney's "unfortunate" remarks about the court. Feb 2008
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During sentencing, Mr Justice Carney said the case was "too important to rush because the DPP wants to do it on the cheap".He also stated that he [Mr Justice Carney] was the person who "is attacked behind his back in another place" and that Mullen's lawyer has "persuaded the Court of Criminal Appeal to make some exotic findings in relation to me [Judge Carney]".Nov 2007
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Seems to me Carney is involved in a war with the people from 'another place' on the issue of sentencing. Who exactly sets a sentence that a convicted person gets - judges at trial, appeal court judges or the legislature?

[mccafferty cat]

Mr. Justice Carney is a nutcase, a publicity-seeker, and a disgrace to the bench.

However, with regard to the Court of Criminal Appeal, he has a point. A defendant's chances of having his sentence reduced are statistically very high, by international standards, by appealing to the CCA. There has been some academic research done on this.

It's composition may be the problem: a supreme court Judge with two (randomly selected) High Court judges. The problem is that the HC judges may have very, very little experience of criminal law, either in their time on the bench or in private practice

[corelli]

When he hands down sentences, Judge Carney -- who hears seven out of 10 rape cases and over 50pc of all murder trials in the State -- often makes explicit references to the jurisprudence of the CCA. And in return, the CCA has publicly noted Carney's "unfortunate" remarks about the court. Feb 2008
- - - - -
During sentencing, Mr Justice Carney said the case was "too important to rush because the DPP wants to do it on the cheap".He also stated that he [Mr Justice Carney] was the person who "is attacked behind his back in another place" and that Mullen's lawyer has "persuaded the Court of Criminal Appeal to make some exotic findings in relation to me [Judge Carney]".Nov 2007
- - - - -

Seems to me Carney is involved in a war with the people from 'another place' on the issue of sentencing. Who exactly sets a sentence that a convicted person gets - judges at trial, appeal court judges or the legislature?

A mixture of all three, but at the end of the day, the Supreme Court sets the outer perimeters. Carney has, for a number of years, been at war, somewhat clandestine and somewhat public, with the Court of Criminal Appeal and, in my opinion, is somewhat disingenuous and selective in the way he feeds the media HIS version of what the Court of Criminal Appeal decides.

He calls himself the "presiding judge" in the Central Criminal Court. There is no such thing/function. He runs the list and decides what judge gets what trial. That is all. He could be removed in the morning at the whim of the President of the High Court and sent to try running down cases.

His expressed difficulty is with judges above him, who may or may not have huge experience with criminal trials, overturning his decisions.

TOUGH

[Outlander]

While it's difficult to stop the knee jerking - "hard cases make bad law"

Yes reform is needed...

[mccafferty cat]

The High Court has some fine legal minds, who are content to go about their business with honour, deliver fine judgements, and follow the system without creating a fuss. I'm thinking of judges like Mr. Justice Frank Clarke, and Mr. Justice Peter Kelly (although the latter had run-ins with the Government a number of years back. He was the judge at the centre of the initial Sinnott Case.)

Carney is a disgrace when compared to these.

Although if memory serves, the High Court Judge with the ignominious distinction of having the most judgements overturned for making errors of law is Vivan Lavan

[Andrew49]

Today [ Jan 28 2009] the Court of Criminal Appeal ruled that the trial judge, Mr Justice Paul Carney, had erred in principal in imposing a life sentence. The appeal court ruled that where a determinate sentence could be imposed it was preferable to an indeterminate sentence.


RTE NEWS

[corelli]

The High Court has some fine legal minds, who are content to go about their business with honour, deliver fine judgements, and follow the system without creating a fuss. I'm thinking of judges like Mr. Justice Frank Clarke, and Mr. Justice Peter Kelly (although the latter had run-ins with the Government a number of years back. He was the judge at the centre of the initial Sinnott Case.)

Carney is a disgrace when compared to these.

Although if memory serves, the High Court Judge with the ignominious distinction of having the most judgements overturned for making errors of law is Vivan Lavan

I think you are right about Lavan too. He is nearly the longest serving too at this stage. I think Ricky Johnson is the only one longer serving.

[shutuplaura]

We need alternatives to prison.

I'd like to see a return of corporal punishment. It is used in Singapore to great effect.

But if your talking about manditory sentencing, that is a disaster as it takes power over sentencing from the judge and effectively gives it to the prosecuting barrister.

As in the cane?? I think that would be the worst idea ever. It might be used to effect in Singapore but that doesn't mean that it would work in ireland.