Howdy all,
The Dublin LGBTQ Pride Festival is well underway, and continues this evening with our annual debate in the Walton Theatre in TCD at 7.30pm.
The motion for discussion is: "Same-Sex Couples Want Access to Civil Marriage, not Civil Partnerships"
Chair: Sen. Ivana Bacik
Prop: Sen. David Norris & Ailbhe Smyth (MarriagEquality)
Opp: Neil Ward (Dublin Pride) & Mary McAuliffe (WERRC, UCD)
All are welcome, and admission is free.....
The Beautiful Room -
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What does the Q stand for?
Queer.
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What is a civil marriage and what is a civil partnership? Is the difference just in the name (as it is here in the UK) or something else?
I look forward to the debate's conclusions telling me what it is I want.
Is that not considered a term of abuse? Is it perfectly acceptable now to refer to a homosexual as a queer?Originally Posted by stretchneil
Wikipedia has a reasonable overview of Queer Theory
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It depends on the jurisdiction, and it remains to be seen what divil partnerships will amount to in Ireland.What is a civil marriage and what is a civil partnership? Is the difference just in the name (as it is here in the UK) or something else?
I look forward to the debate's conclusions telling me what it is I want
We're not attempting to speak for everyone, but to start a genuine discussion within the community about what people do want.
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1) The gay commuity exists only in the minds of those who want to make money/get government funding, to establish a power base (eg LGBTQ Labour/Labour Youth) or use it as a term of abuse.It depends on the jurisdiction, and it remains to be seen what divil partnerships will amount to in Ireland.What is a civil marriage and what is a civil partnership? Is the difference just in the name (as it is here in the UK) or something else?
I look forward to the debate's conclusions telling me what it is I want
We're not attempting to speak for everyone, but to start a genuine discussion within the community about what people do want.
2) It doesn't really matter whether the "gay community" would prefer civil marriage to civil partnership, the political establishment (and a High Court judge in the oly releveant decision) have decided that civil marriage will require a referendum, which will not happen in the foreseeable future. So civil partnership it is - which would appear to be provide substantial rights, benefits, obligations and duties which come from State recognition.
We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don't know we don't know.
In Ireland the only diffrences seem to be:It depends on the jurisdiction, and it remains to be seen what divil partnerships will amount to in Ireland.What is a civil marriage and what is a civil partnership? Is the difference just in the name (as it is here in the UK) or something else?
I look forward to the debate's conclusions telling me what it is I want
We're not attempting to speak for everyone, but to start a genuine discussion within the community about what people do want.
(or will be)
1. The title
2. Adoption
Signed, Universal (LGBT...QRSTUVWXYZ)
True, and neither is it a Human Right under international law. It drives me bananas when people who wish for "marriage" use human rights as an argument for its availability here. I support the idea that it should be available for those who wish it but using proper arguments rather than inventing them.1) The gay commuity exists only in the minds of those who want to make money/get government funding, to establish a power base (eg LGBTQ Labour/Labour Youth) or use it as a term of abuse.It depends on the jurisdiction, and it remains to be seen what divil partnerships will amount to in Ireland.What is a civil marriage and what is a civil partnership? Is the difference just in the name (as it is here in the UK) or something else?
I look forward to the debate's conclusions telling me what it is I want
We're not attempting to speak for everyone, but to start a genuine discussion within the community about what people do want.
2) It doesn't really matter whether the "gay community" would prefer civil marriage to civil partnership, the political establishment (and a High Court judge in the oly releveant decision) have decided that civil marriage will require a referendum, which will not happen in the foreseeable future. So civil partnership it is - which would appear to be provide substantial rights, benefits, obligations and duties which come from State recognition.
The Zappone supreme court judgement should be interesting. I bet money they will indicate that "marriage" as constiutionally known, is between a man and a woman, as the high court found. I also would lay money that they will find that affording the same rights to same sex couples as married couples, whatever you call it, is an attack on the constitutional marriage and therefore to be avoided. In circumstances where we would need a constitutional referendum to allow it what is the point of these debates?
"......... we must sometimes listen to those who, consumed with zeal, have scant judgment or balance. To such ones the modern world is nothing but betrayal and ruin.........We feel bound to disagree with these prophets of doom who are forever forecasting calamity -- as though the world's end were imminent."
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