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  1. #611
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    The Catholic Cure for Poverty


    https://www.jacobinmag.com/2016/05/c...her-baby-homes


    Sarah-Anne Buckley is a lecturer in history at the National University of Ireland, Galway, author of The Cruelty Man About Child Welfare in Ireland, and editor of Soathar: the Journal of the Irish Labour History Society.


    …. Ireland’s long history of imprisoning women and children in industrial schools, reformatories, mother and baby homes, Magdalene laundries, and psychiatric facilities.


    How did Ireland become a country where institutionalization was the preferred response to poverty, “immorality,” and other social ills?

    …. It [Catholic Church] acted in partnership with the state and elites, creating an institutional nexus that *rejected social-democratic solutions to poverty* and pushed back against women’s liberation.


    Instead, the effects of poverty became transformed into moral issues to be solved by institutionalization — a process that undergirded Ireland’s carceral state and profoundly impacted the treatment of women and children in the country.

    … the criminalization of women and children, particularly unmarried mothers who were shepherded by the thousands into Magdalene laundries and mother and baby homes.


    The laundries were a nineteenth-century institution that evolved from a place of temporary respite for women — albeit imbued with moralistic and penitent structures — to a carceral institution in independent Ireland.


    Women worked within them under terrible conditions for no pay, some remaining for short periods, others for their entire lives.

    The mother and baby homes were a separate institution that emerged in 1922 during the Irish Free State, and were officially endorsed by the Church and state authorities in 1927 as a solution to illegitimacy. Unwed pregnant women were consigned to the homes to give birth and were required to work in the home for two years afterward, unless they had money to leave.


    Their children were usually adopted illegally from the homes ….

    The industrial school system — a nineteenth-century British construction endorsed by successive Irish governments until the late twentieth century — was one of a cluster of institutions, along with reformatories and borstals (youth detention centers), kept in place to deal with perceived social problems.


    The principal reason given for the removal of children to industrial schools was that families were too poor to care for their children, but the language used to describe removal conveys a clear class prejudice. Common complaints in the files recorded by inspectors were that parents were “lazy,” “dirty,” “unfit,” “useless,” “indifferent,” or of “doubtful morals.”


    By 1924, there were more children in industrial schools in the Irish Free State than there were in all of the industrial schools in England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland combined. The system was abolished in England in 1933, but in Ireland, particularly following the suppression of the 1935 Carrigan Report, the reformatory system continued for decades.


    Annie’s story has much in common with testimony from other former industrial school residents — fear, starvation, cold, sexual and physical abuse, humiliation, and degradation. So overwhelming and specific are the details that it has become impossible for these testimonies to be dismissed as figments of “the highly coloured imaginations of children.”


    MARY RAFTERY AND EOIN O'SULLIVAN'S BOOK - 'SUFFER THE LITTLE CHILDREN' - EXPOSED IRELAND'S ... ...

    ABOMINABLE AND PUNITIVE CLASS-BASED CARCERAL SYSTEM
    ... THAT DETAINED THOUSANDS OF CHILDREN BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS WERE POOR ... :



    Mary Raftery and Eoin O’Sullivan’s 1999 book, Suffer the Little Children, exposed Ireland’s class-based carceral system in a way that few other commentators dared — “that thousands of children were detained in a State-funded system essentially because their parents were poor.”


    -----> The unwillingness to recognize the central role of class, poverty, and sexism in policing Irish families obscures the connection of past abuses to present ones.


    -----> The state’s relationship to Ireland’s Travelling community is illustrative. Here again the extraordinary poverty of Travellers has been cast as a cultural and moral issue — eliding the need for state social services, jobs programs, and anti-discriminatory legislation.

    ......


    Starry: I really like above article because it encapsulates all the points I've spoken about on this thread and elsewhere… direct provision, etc., etc., …. Recommended reading. Bookmark it.


    Thank you Sarah-Anne Buckley.
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  2. #612
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    -----> A SPOKESPERSON FOR ZAPPONE SAID SHE HAS 'AN OPEN MIND ON POTENTIAL REDRESS SCHEME FOR UNACCOMPANIED CHILDREN BY THEIR MOTHERS' …

    BUT DECISION WOULD HAVE TO GO TO DAIL
    ...
    <-----



    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...omes-1.3317011


    A spokesman for Ms Zappone said it was essential residents could contribute to the decisions on these matters. Asked if that extended to a possible financial compensation, he said this was not a decision solely for her and would have to be a Government decision. However, he stated Ms Zappone had an open mind on this matter.

    The interim report of the commission confirmed it had met 346 former residents and is seeking to meet 200 others. It has also begun the process of assessing available death records, but said there were significant gaps in the information available about the burials of babies.

    The commission has heard evidence from 140 individuals about conditions in the institutions. These include former residents, workers and representatives of the authorities who ran the institutions.


    COME ON KATHERINE ZAPPONE … … HAVE SOME BACKBONE … DO YOUR JOB AT LAST …


    NO MORE DELAY TACTICS ON YOUR PART… ... ... AND NO MORE DOUBLESPEAK ...







    Redress - No Less … Redress - No Less …


    REDRESS - NO LESS…
    Last edited by StarryPlough01; 6th December 2017 at 02:07 AM.
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  3. #613
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    Mother and Baby Homes Report Delayed until February 2019


    https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-36382043.html


    Paul Redmond, chairperson of the Coalition of Mother And Baby home Survivors said :"This is yet another delaying tactic by the Government to deny survivors truth and justice. The current inquiry is already too limited and excludes many survivors and this delay will now ensure that thousands more survivors are denied justice by death.”


    He said the survivor community is elderly and dying and many hundreds have already passed away since the Tuam 800 story broke in May 2014 and the Government announced an inquiry.


    The records of the four county homes are held either by the HSE, the National Archives or local archives. These are all being examined and analysed manually. Unmarried mothers and children were a relatively small minority of the residents of county homes.


    County Homes also housed, among others, homeless married parents with their children as well as children of married parents who were there without their parents. It is a complex task to establish which residents are within the remit of the Commission.


    The Commission has also collected a wide variety of documentary material from other archives, in particular, the National Archives.


    Orders for discovery have been served on the religious congregations who ran or worked in the various institutions and they have provided a range of relevant material.



    -----> I AM CALLING FOR THE DAIL TO STEP IN AND EXPAND THE COMMISSION'S TERMS OF REFERENCE TO INCLUDE **ALL** THE MOTHER AND BABY HOMES, COUNTY HOMES... IN ORDER TO HAVE A BALANCED INQUIRY



    ......................






    Redress - No Less … Redress - No Less …


    REDRESS - NO LESS…
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  4. #614
    HereWeGoAgain HereWeGoAgain is offline

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    Meanwhile in Journal today:

    Japanese hotel chain is 'likely' buyer for Magdalene Laundry site - councill
    or

    Gannon, who’s a member of the Social Democrats, said that it was inappropriate for the hotel chain to purchase the premises given the premises’ dark history if abuse.
    “How can we in all conscience allow this site to once again become a place where women will be paid relatively little to clean and serve the needs of others in order to generate enormous income for a wealthy institution?”
    Plans for the derelict site include the building of a 351-bed hotel, a 140-bed student residence, a private cultural amenity and ten residential units, four of which are earmarked for social housing.

    Gannon has requested that it be clarified where the promised memorial for the Magdalene survivors would be placed, and called it “reprehensible and unforgivable” that it seemed to be an “afterthought” in the process.



    Japanese hotel chain is 'likely' buyer for Magdalene Laundry site - councillor
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  5. #615
    HereWeGoAgain HereWeGoAgain is offline

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    Stoneacre Studios‏
    @artymaggie
    As 'a child of sin' my initial infancy was in St. Patrick's 'home' in Blackrock.
    I don't know what happened to me as a newborn.
    #tuambabies
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  6. #616
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by HereWeGoAgain View Post
    Meanwhile in Journal today:

    Japanese hotel chain is 'likely' buyer for Magdalene Laundry site - councill
    or






    Japanese hotel chain is 'likely' buyer for Magdalene Laundry site - councillor

    The proceeds from the sale should be given to the Magdalene women survivors.

    The memorial has to be a massive monument honouring all the women and children slaves who worked in this gulag. All the names of the Magdalenes must be inscribed on the monument for posterity (it will be a lot of names). This area must be protected in perpetuity.



    Lest We Forget
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  7. #617
    HereWeGoAgain HereWeGoAgain is offline

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    Joe Duffy's podcast from yesterday dealt with proposed sale of Magdalene Laundry in Sean McDermott St in Dublin to Japanese Hotel chain. Samantha Long whose birth mother was incarcerated in this laundry for 35 years, believes that at least part of the property should be devoted to the women who spent their entire lives there and in the case of her mum, died at the age of 50 - just one day before her fifty-first birthday from a disease which was directly related to the workplace.

    Listen to podcast here
    RTÉ Radio Player
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  8. #618
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    This is excellent reading, and helps to fill in any gaps…


    Some short excerpts below:


    *THE ALL PERVASIVE AND CONTROLLING CATHOLIC CHURCH INTERFERING IN WOMEN AND CHILDREN'S LIVES*



    Since Independence from British Control - 4 Major Reports:


    *Cussen Report (1939)

    *Tuairim Report (1966)

    *Kennedy Report (1970)

    *Task Force Report (1981)



    Chapter One: The History of Irish Child Care


    McLellan, Damien (1998), "Effecting Change Within Residential Child Care"


    Chapter One: The History of Irish Child Care


    Reforming the Industrial Schools


    … in 1939 there were 52 industrial schools remaining, all under Roman Catholic management, and certified for the care of 6,563 children. (Arnold and Lasky, 1985, p.132). This report did not comment on the rule by which children could be sent from industrial to reformatory schools, nor about the punishments received by the children, although, being covered by the regulations, this would have been within their field of reference. Nor did they make any reference to the rise in the mortality rate. (Ibid. p.134)


    STARRY: The Cussen Report 1939 approved the continuation of the system in place. After all, the Catholic Church was providing a service at a fraction of what it would cost the State to provide. The RC managed all Irish hospitals, except General hospitals and all schools in Ireland with the exception of some National schools.



    Another iniquitous example of the all pervasive and controlling influence of Catholic Church:


    In 1948 UK's NHS started providing maternity and child welfare services paid for by National Health Insurance subscriptions. In Ireland, a more radical service was proposed in 1951, not to be paid for from general taxation, known as the Mother and Child Scheme.



    The Mother and Child Scheme


    ——> In both jurisdictions sections of the medical profession opposed the introduction of a free medical service but in Ireland the principal opposition came from the Catholic Hierarchy.

    They argued that a mother and child health scheme, without a means test was “in direct opposition to the rights of the family” and, even more alarmingly, if it became law would “constitute a ready-made instrument for future totalitarian aggression”. (Browne, N. 1986, p.158)

    ——> A longer quotation from the above source [Browne, N. 1986, p.158]; regarding a confidential letter from the Secretary to the Catholic Hierarchy addressed to the Taoiseach (Prime Minister) demonstrates how much they feared free (financial and professional) access of expectant mothers to liberal or Protestant doctors and warns:


    ——> Education in regard to motherhood includes instruction in regard to sex relations, chastity and marriage. The State has no competence to give instruction in such matters. We regard with the greatest apprehension the proposal to give to local medical officers the right to tell Catholic girls and women how they should behave in regard to this sphere of conduct at once so delicate and sacred. < -----


    The letter continues:


    ——> Gynaecological care may be, as in some countries it is, interpreted to include provision for birth limitation and abortion. We have no guarantee that State Officials will respect Catholic principles in regard to these matters.


    And at the centre of their fears:


    Doctors trained in institutions in which we have no confidence may be appointed as medical officers under the proposed services and give gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles.


    STARRY: The sky will fall. Heathen Protestant doctors may be appointed under this scheme… We have to crush this scheme...


    The complete letter was read out to the Irish Minister for Health, Dr Noel Browne (trained at then - Protestant - Trinity College, where the Catholic hierarchy might have "no confidence"), who had been summoned for this reading to the Palace of the Archbishop of Dublin in October 1950:



    He [Dr Browne] had also encountered substantial resistance while reforming Catholic-controlled hospitals. In March 1951 the Church denounced the Bill eventually proposed by Dr Browne to implement the Scheme and, isolated and unsupported at Cabinet, he was forced to resign.

    ——> A contemporaneous Irish Times editorial commented that the Catholic Church “would seem to be the most effective government of the country”.


    An angry Taoiseach (Prime Minister), John A Costelloe, who had forced Browne’s resignation retorted:


    ——> “I, as a good Catholic, obey my Church authorities and will continue to do so in spite of the Irish Times or anyone else”. (Irish Times, May 23rd 1997).



    Reformer Dr James Deeney - Public Health Set Back Years:


    ——> The real tragedy of the debacle was that it set back public health in the country for years and opened up the way to the centralised, bureaucratic, politicised and authoritarian government which we now enjoy. (Deeney, J. 1989, p.178).

    STARRY: How many people died because they could not afford health care. How many people have suicided due to unimaginable barbaric cruelty inflicted on them, and being sexual abused by perverted paedophile priests, nuns…



    Now survivors wait for stonewalling Minister Katherine Zappone to take action (hell will freeze over). Of course Zappone knows what's best for the survivors, who are being given the run around with polite speech facilitated meetings and disingenuous profferings...







    I will try and find an unedited version of above-mentioned letter.
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  9. #619
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    Content from Wikipedia...


    Mother and Child Scheme


    https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.p...tem_type=topic


    More important was the opposition of the Archbishop of Dublin, John Charles McQuaid, who summoned Browne to his palace[8] and read out a letter to be sent to the Taoiseach, John A. Costello, penned by Dr. James Staunton, Bishop of Ferns, which contained, "...they [the Archbishops and bishops] feel bound by their office to consider whether the proposals are in accordance with Catholic moral teaching," and, "Doctors trained in institutions in which we have no confidence may be appointed as medical officers ... and may give gynaecological care not in accordance with Catholic principles.[12] [13] The letter stated that health provision and physical education for children were solely the "right" of parents and not the State's concern.


    Archbishop McQuaid was the chairman of some boards of directors of Dublin hospitals. He exercised considerable influence concerning medical appointments and control over the religious orders whose members made up much of the administrative and management staff in hospitals, sanatoria etc.[14] [15]


    Concerning the term "moral teaching" in the letter to the Taoiseach, Browne received supportive advice - in secret - from Francis Cremin, a Maynooth professor of theology and canon law.[8]


    Some bishops, McQuaid and others feared the scheme could pave the way for abortion and birth control. Though some Catholic Church leaders may have been privately sympathetic to Browne and wished to reach an accommodation, what was viewed as Browne's tactless handling of the Catholic Church forced the moderates into silence, allowing the anti-Mother and Child Scheme members of the hierarchy under McQuaid to set the agenda.[16]

    In his resignation statement, Browne told the House:


    I had been led to believe that my insistence on the exclusion of a means test had the full support of my colleagues in the Government. I now know that it had not. Furthermore, the Hierarchy has informed the Government that they must regard the mother and child scheme proposed by me as opposed to Catholic social teaching. This decision I, as a Catholic, immediately accepted without hesitation.[20]


    Browne explained his approach to the Dáil by saying:


    I might say that my question to their Lordships was: Is this contrary to Catholic moral teaching?


    The reply, as you all know, was that it is contrary to Catholic social teaching. I was not aware — the Taoiseach can verify this — until I had asked each member of the Cabinet separately what he proposed to do, what he had been given to understand by Dr. McQuaid when that decision was taken.


    He then told us that that morning he had been informed by Dr. McQuaid that Catholic social teaching and Catholic moral teaching were one and the same thing.[22]
    Last edited by StarryPlough01; 9th December 2017 at 03:50 AM. Reason: Duplicate sentence
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  10. #620
    StarryPlough01 StarryPlough01 is offline
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    Mother and Child Scheme


    The Mother and Child Scheme – The role of Church and State. | The Irish Story


    The Catholic Hierarchy’s position, which overstepped it's 'moral authority'*


    McQuaid’s objections were threefold; the first concerned ‘morality’ – the scheme intended to discuss family planning with women, which McQuaid believed was the remit of the Church and that the State was not entitled or qualified to interfere in. Secondly, McQuaid rejected the increased role of the State in the life of the individual, which he described with some exaggeration as a step towards totalitarianism. Finally, ... he objected to the fact that the scheme proposed no means test.

    *The hierarchy argued against the no-means-test element of the scheme because it was, ‘not sound policy to involve the whole community on the pretext of relieving the 10% from so-called indignity of the means test’.

    Noel Brown challenges Church's argument in his autobiography:


    ... ‘The very existence of the existing free no-means-test schemes within our own social, education and health services, as well as the British N.H.S. in the North [Aneurin Bevan’s National Health Service USED BY CATHOLICS], patently gave lie to the bishop’s condemnation of the scheme’.[14]

    The hierarchy argued that the mother and child scheme interfered with the Church’s social teaching on matters of family planning and that free health care in certain countries included a gynaecologist and abortion service.
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