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  1. #11
    lochlannach lochlannach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummed View Post
    Dunno. He went to a country known to be in turmoil and took part in a political protest. In principle if he is a citizen of Ireland he deserves help but don't present him as an innocent tourist who just ended up in the wrong place. That's not really the case here.

    He did knowingly place himself in danger which was unwise so some responsibility must attach to him. You can't rely on the government to always extract you from situations of your own making.

    Anyway, what concrete steps do you propose Ireland take? You seem short of actual suggestions yourself.
    Well....! How about asking for at least some sort of half-assed attempt at a justice process?? Oh, you know the type; charge him with stuff, present evidence to back up the stuff, find witnesses, let him have a lawyer, let lawyer see evidence etc.

    Is placing oneself in danger a crime in Egypt? Come on, drummed. Stop playing naive.
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  2. #12
    The_SR The_SR is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dick McKee View Post
    Legally, Fitzpatrick was an Irish citizen at birth. His ma was Irish born. He just never bothered applying for a passport until he got a date with oul sparky.
    So definitely not the same as an Irish born Irish citizen.

    Thanks for playing.
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  3. #13
    drummed drummed is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_SR View Post
    Well if the DFA are willing to sort out the transfer of a drugs mule from Peru, I don't think its unreasonable that the embassy visit him in jail to see how he is being treated, arrange legals if required, protest if his treatment is unfair.

    I understand this has all occurred. You fail to address the basic point. He ignored advice not to go to an area known to be dangerous.

    Hence, he must take some personal responsibility here. Would you have gone to Cairo at the time? I wouldn't.
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  4. #14
    The_SR The_SR is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummed View Post
    Yes, but if you go to Iraq and get yourself captured by ISIS is that the governments fault?

    The Dept of Foreign affairs had issued a warning advising people not to go to Cairo.

    Right now they would I presume advise citizens not to go to Iraq.

    If you ignore that and go anyway is that the Governments fault?
    What conversation are you having?Who is 'blaming' the government?

    What is the point of having consular assistance if it isn't used in situations like this?
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  5. #15
    drummed drummed is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by lochlannach View Post
    Well....! How about asking for at least some sort of half-assed attempt at a justice process?? Oh, you know the type; charge him with stuff, present evidence to back up the stuff, find witnesses, let him have a lawyer, let lawyer see evidence etc.

    Is placing oneself in danger a crime in Egypt? Come on, drummed. Stop playing naive.

    Would you travel to Northern Iraq today to take part in a protest march or would you consider that unwise?
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  6. #16
    Odyessus Odyessus is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by lochlannach View Post
    Ibrahim Halawa was arrested during protests against the coup in Egypt last year. Twelve months later, it's far from clear exactly what he's supposed to have done wrong. But he's spent a whole year in prison now. He's being brought to trial today presumably charged with some as yet unspecified crime.

    Justice in Egypt - as in many Arab countries - is a strange beast so there's little hope he'll get a fair trial. He's an Irish teenager far away from home and family; he wants to get back here to do his Leaving Certificate exams. There's a distinct sense that if he was Caucasian, his story would be all over the newspapers and talk shows.

    But he's obviously of ethnic Arab origin and his case has attracted little interest. Shouldn't the Irish government be doing more to protect its citizens caught up in the vagaries of tin pot justice systems?



    Calls to release Irish teen detained in Cairo - RTÉ News
    If he also has citizenship of Egypt, no. I think it likely he considers himself an Arab rather than Irish anyway. Would he be as eager to get involved in a political conflict in Ireland that had nothing to do with Arab or Muslim issues? I doubt it very much. I'd say he would neither know nor care what the Irish conflict was over, just as the majority of Irish people feel about the Egyptian situation.
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  7. #17
    drummed drummed is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_SR View Post
    What conversation are you having?Who is 'blaming' the government?

    What is the point of having consular assistance if it isn't used in situations like this?
    It has occurred and been widely discussed. What now? Invade?
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  8. #18
    The_SR The_SR is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by drummed View Post
    I understand this has all occurred. You fail to address the basic point. He ignored advice not to go to an area known to be dangerous.

    Hence, he must take some personal responsibility here. Would you have gone to Cairo at the time? I wouldn't.
    Of course he should. But going somewhere dangerous doesn't mean that if you get lifted for something like a peaceful protest and held a year without charge the DFA won't at least check in on you
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  9. #19
    White Horse White Horse is offline
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    The Irish government is providing him with consular assistence. That is the extent of it's responsibilities.

    He must answer in a court of law for his actions and explain why he choose to consort with sectarian terrorists while apparently on a "holiday".
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  10. #20
    Dick McKee Dick McKee is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by The_SR View Post
    So definitely not the same as an Irish born Irish citizen.

    Thanks for playing.
    Being born in Ireland does not guarantee Irish citizenship. Being born to an Irish parent does. Fitzpatrick was an Irish citizenship at birth. Doesn't matter where he was born. Southern Yemen or West Cork. He was is an Irish born citizen.
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