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  1. #71
    Jack Walsh Jack Walsh is offline

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    Delighted for Nora Wall
    The least she deserves

    I hope she is enjoying life.
    She should use every cent of it to enjoy her remaining years and hope she doesn't feel any compulsion to give it to charity or worst still the church.

    Pablo Mc Cabe RIP
    Just another nobody that didn't count unfortunately.
    If he had been the son of a Senior Counsel he'd have got millions.
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  2. #72
    Robert Hand Robert Hand is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toland View Post
    I feel sorry for [nun] Wall, but also for the children unfortunate enough to have been left in her care.
    I remember her conviction as if it was yesterday. The notion of a women being guilty of rape seemed preposterous to me yet an Irish jury found her guilty, while our infamous media jumped on board. My atheism ensured that her being a nun did not interfere with my thinking.

    It was the supposed "unfortunate children" who she cared for that were the first to come to her assistance on Liveline. They were insistent in ringing Liveline to offer evidence of their experience of her care. They wondered on air why none were asked to give evidence in court. It seems the prosecuting Garda sergeant was selective in hand picking witness who supported his own twisted version of the case. He seems to have avoided repercussions for his actions.

    I cannot claim that without the intervention of her supposed "unfortunate children" that there could not have been a correction of a grave miscarriage of justice but I suspect she would have done her time.

    Now we seem to have another miscarriage in the pipeline. This time a 6 to 8 year old child who believes his father supervised his raping his mother!!! Racism may well be the underlying logic.
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  3. #73
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Phil Hogan Libeled Nora Wall (and Others) in 2002

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Walsh View Post
    Delighted for Nora Wall
    The least she deserves

    I hope she is enjoying life.
    She should use every cent of it to enjoy her remaining years and hope she doesn't feel any compulsion to give it to charity or worst still the church.

    Pablo Mc Cabe RIP
    Just another nobody that didn't count unfortunately.
    If he had been the son of a Senior Counsel he'd have got millions.
    Unfortunately I was very busy at the time Nora Wall received her long delayed compensation from the State a few months ago but i commented recently on Phil Hogan who won a libel action against TV3. I wrote that it was rather strange since he himself had engaged in a much more vicious libel against Nora Wall - at a time when Hogan was Chairman of Fine Gael. Anyway this is what I wrote on the thread "Phil Hogan Wins Defamation Award against TV3"


    ............ Obscene lies are IMMUNE from legal action if they are told in the Dail. Like for example as reported in the Irish Times on 25 April 2002:

    TD cites retired official in child sex abuse allegations

    TD Cites Retired Official in Child Sex Abuse Allegations

    Details were given in the Dáil last night about a retired senior official in the Department of Education who is alleged to have been involved in a Dublin-based child sex ring. At the time he was supposed to be investigating alleged child sex abuse.

    Fine Gael chairman Mr Phil Hogan gave details last night about the official, who retired some years ago and who "has been implicated by a victim in a rent-a-boy sex ring with convicted killer Malcolm McArthur". He referred to "astonishing revelations of a perceived and systematic cover-up of rape, gross indecency and abuse of children from 1978 to 1990". The official "is the golden thread weaving through a number of centres where children were in some cases tortured and forced to have sex with animals". [My emphasis]

    Mr Hogan condemned the Department for its failure to take action about the official and said it was not good enough to say it was voluntarily disclosing documents to the Laffoy commission on child abuse. "This man has never come to the attention of gardaí," he said, but "his name keeps coming up with journalists speaking to health board officials". Mr Hogan asked, "Does anyone really care within the Department about what happened to these poor youngsters who were put in the care of the State and then abused?"
    ..........

    Mr Hogan said the official was linked to investigations into sexual abuse in residential centres in Kilkenny city, Cappoquin, Co Waterford, and Clonmel. ....

    The official was alleged to have been with convicted murderer Malcolm McArthur when the two picked up the rent boy on the Quays in Dublin. Malcolm McArthur has served 20 years for the murder of a nurse in the Phoenix Park and another man, and was later found in the home of the then Attorney-General. The prostitute recognised the Department official. He had met him while a resident of St Joseph's school in Clonmel, when the man was a Department inspector.

    Mr Hogan, referring to the story which appeared in the Ireland on Sunday newspaper last week, said the official also investigated sex abuse by convicted paedophiles and "gave one of the worst offenders a clean bill of health". He said it was alleged that all of the abuse took place at the time the centre was managed by Nora Wall, a former Sister of Mercy nun whose conviction for rape of a 10-year-old child was quashed by the court of criminal appeal in 1999. ......
    [My emphasis]

    Phil Hogan named Nora Wall. Although he did not name the Dept. of Education official, he gave lots of details and I'm sure lots of people - including the man's colleagues in the Dept. of Education knew whom Hogan was talking about. Isn't it curious how sensitive Hogan is when he himself is libeled - and in a much LESS serious way than the people he himself targeted?
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  4. #74
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Does Phil Hogan Have a Reputation to Lose?

    Could TV3 have defended themselves against Hogan's recent libel suit, by pointing out that Phil Hogan himself had engaged in libelous behaviour, far more vile than anything they had alleged, and that he deliberately did so in circumstances where those he accused had no comeback i.e. in the Dail? Could they have defended themselves by stating that that Phil Hogan had no reputation to lose?

    Well possibly not. Phil Hogan's vile allegations were given a fair amount of publicity in April 2002 by journalists who shared his brand of ideological hatred (anti-clericalism). However I believe they quickly realised that he was talking nonsense and dropped the subject. There were no media demands for an inquiry into the paedophile ring involving torture, sex with animals, Malcolm McArthur, Nora Wall, a Dept of Education official etc. On the other hand there were no demands from journalists that Phil Hogan either substantiate his claims or apologise. The result is that 99% of Irish people have forgotten that Hogan ever made such grotesque claims and thus it cannot be said that he has no reputation to lose!

    What a pity.
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  5. #75
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Does Phil Hogan Have a Reputation to Lose? (Hogan vs Nora Wall)

    And the reason journalists quickly understood that Hogan was talking rubbish and they better not pursue the subject?? The Sunday World [specifically Paul Williams] had libeled Nora Wall in 1999 by making allegations slightly different from Phil Hogan's but just as vile. She took legal action against them and the case must have been well advanced by April 2002 (when Hogan produced his own libel) because it concluded in October 2002 with an apology and damages from the Sunday Wurst. Irish journalists must have been well aware of the progress of the case but Hogan probably wasn't; even 6 months later, the apology and award of damages was ignored by nearly all of the Irish secular media - I think that Phoenix magazine was the only exception. So Phil Hogan may well have been unaware that April 2002 wasn't the best time to be initiating another libel!

    Of course he might have known all, and decided to go ahead anyway using Dail privilege to shield himself!

    Nora Wall, Paul Williams, Sunday World Libel, Sunday World Apology, "The Phoenix" magazine
    Last edited by Kilbarry1; 24th July 2016 at 05:34 PM. Reason: insert Paul Williams
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  6. #76
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Deputy (now Minister) Charles Flanagan and Nora Wall

    The SECOND politician who slandered Nora Wall is Charles Flanagan, also Fine Gael, also a man who has held ministerial posts (currently Minister for Foreign Affairs and previously Minister for Children)! This is part of what he said on 8 July 2009 during the debate on the Institutional Abuse Bill
    Dáil Éireann - 08/Jul/2009 Institutional Child Abuse Bill 2009: Second Stage (Resumed)

    While I do not have time to speak in detail about the Louise O’Keeffe case, I wish to speak about another woman, namely, Nora Wall. Nora Wall has hardly been mentioned in the debate on the Ryan report. She became something of a heroine for those who mistrust the Irish courts when her conviction for rape was overturned in 1999. Since her conviction was overturned, she has been portrayed as an heroic martyr in many quarters with references to witch hunts and witch trials abounding. Six weeks ago, the columnist Kevin Myers wrote in a national newspaper:

    "The liberal-left lynch mob that went after poor Nora Wall a decade ago was prepared to destroy her life on the basis of lies."

    Mr. Myers would do well to read the description of “poor Nora Wall” in the Ryan report. Nora Wall does not deserve the plaudits that have been directed her way since her conviction for rape was overturned. While her case may have collapsed, the Ryan report reveals graphically that Nora Wall was no saint. She exposed the children in her care to unacceptable risks by allowing male outsiders to stay overnight at the Cappoquin care centre which was in her charge. She entertained past pupils and student priests in the home and allowed them to stay overnight. A witness stated that much drinking took place at these gatherings.

    There is more to this than meets the eye in respect of these social events. It has been suggested that there were frequent visits to the Cappoquin home by some clergy from Mount Melleray Abbey. Access to children may have been a key motivation for these visits. One must bear in mind that Mount Melleray was selected by the notorious paedophile, Fr. Brendan Smith, as a holiday destination or as a haven to which to escape when he was on the run from the authorities in Northern Ireland. This issue must be revisited.


    In other words Flanagan repeated the libel published by the Sunday World in 1999 for what they had to apologise and pay damages to Nora Wall in 2002. Details of the libel and the Sunay Wurst apology (reported in Phoenix Magazine are here)
    Nora Wall, Paul Williams, Sunday World Libel, Sunday World Apology, "The Phoenix" magazine

    and to give an example of the nature of the article

    Rape Nun's Abuse Pact with Smyth

    EXCLUSIVE by PAUL WILLIAMS


    EVIL NUN Nora Wall, convicted for helping to rape a ten-year-old child, also secretly provided children for sick paedophile priest Father Brendan Smyth.

    The Sunday World has learned that depraved cleric regularly visited St. Michael's Childcare Centre in County Waterford where Wall, then known as Sister Dominic, was working. Last month Wall was the first woman to be convicted of rape in Ireland .
    .....


    The conviction of Nora Wall (and Pablo McCabe) in 1999 quickly collapsed when their two accusers gave an interview to the Daily Star who published their names for the first time and it quickly became apparent that the two accusers were serial rape liars. (One of their previous victims read the Star article and contacted Nora Wall's family.) HOWEVER the allegation made by the Sunday World - about her supplying children to Fr Brendan Smyth did NOT figure in her trial i.e. the Sunday World just invented it on the basis that a person convicted of rape could not sue for libel. (They were then caught out when the conviction collapsed.)

    So where did our current Minister for Foreign Affairs (and past Minister for Children) get his information? "It has been suggested" he said in the Dail. WHO suggested it apart from the Sunday World? Did Charlie Flanagan repeat this claim outside of the Dail? Did he go to the Gardai and demand an investigation? If not why not?
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  7. #77
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Symphysiotomy Applicants Claimed they were Held Down by Nuns while being "Assaulted"

    The following is from the Symphysiotomy thread but it is very relevant to the case of Nora Wall and Pablo McCabe

    Almost a third of applicants for symphysiotomy compensation 'did not undergo symphysiotomy'

    It refers to an article by Breda O'Brien in last Saturday's Irish Times
    Breda O
    Breda O’Brien: Why did so many women say they had symphysiotomies?

    QUOTE
    While some journalists like Paul Cullen went into detail on the questionable aspects of the [Symphysiotomy] applications for "compensation", I think that Breda O'Brien is the only one to have mentioned this particular obscenity:

    But medical experts proved that a third of those who made applications, including some very vociferous and active campaigners, had never had the procedure at all.

    Other applicants claimed to have had it in hospitals that were not yet built, or to have had it carried out by doctors who were not there, and “in several statements the applicant claimed being held down by nuns (in hospitals where there were no nuns) while she was being ‘assaulted’.”
    [My emphasis]

    Breda O'Brien correctly reminds readers of the parallel with the allegations against former Sister of Mercy Nora Wall and her alleged "accomplice" Pablo McCabe.

    It is eerily reminiscent of Nora Wall, who was accused, convicted and jailed for allegedly holding down a child while Paul McCabe raped a victim. Nora Wall was subsequently cleared of all wrongdoing, as was Paul McCabe. But reasons why such an utterly egregious miscarriage of justice were allowed to happen have never been properly investigated, and never will be.

    Nora Wall was accused by sociopaths who hoped to make a financial killing from the Sisters of Mercy. Pablo McCabe was a homeless schizophrenic man with no money. However at the time of the allegation, no woman had ever been convicted of rape in Ireland so the accusers made him the main rapist and Nora Wall the helper who held the raped girl down. The parallel with some of the Symphysiotomy applications is extra-ordinary.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nora_Wall
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  8. #78
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Symphysiotomy Applicants Claimed they were Held Down by Nuns while being "Assaulted" [2]

    The following is also from the Symphysiotomy thread and is also relevant to the case of Nora Wall and Pablo McCabe

    Another point made by Breda O'Brien (although she wasn't the only journalist to mention this) also relates - indirectly - to nuns and it illustrates the level of hysteria connected to these applications for "compensation".
    Breda O’Brien: Why did so many women say they had symphysiotomies
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/br...mies-1.2882141

    .....The accounts by the women repeatedly said that they would never forget the sound of the saw, which some described in detail. “Some applicants recalled actually seeing the doctor taking out the saw which was sometimes described as a hacksaw or an electric saw or a saw with a wooden handle.”

    Except that a saw is never used in symphysiotomy, and never has been. [My emphasis] After numbing the area, scalpels are used to make an incision in the fibrous cartilage of the pelvis, which allows it to widen sufficiently to allow the baby to be born. A pubiotomy involves sawing of bones. Among the applicants, only one pubiotomy was verified, even though this procedure is the easiest to identify as X-rays provide irrefutable evidence. Accidental injury to bone can occur in symphysiotomy when an inexperienced doctor fails to incise correctly, but nothing comparable to pubiotomy and there would be no sound comparable to sawing.......


    Link this to the above quote [Post No 77]
    Other applicants claimed to have had [the Symphysiotomy operation] in hospitals that were not yet built, or to have had it carried out by doctors who were not there, and “in several statements the applicant claimed being held down by nuns (in hospitals where there were no nuns) while she was being ‘assaulted’.”

    That's the kind of hysterical atmosphere in which it was possible for Nora Wall and Pablo McCabe to be wrongly convicted of rape. And actually the first allegation that Symphysiotomy was a barbaric operation imposed on women by Catholic dogma, dates to 1999 - the same year that Nora Wall was convicted.
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  9. #79
    Lumpy Talbot Lumpy Talbot is offline

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    What about the two thirds of complainants who did undergo symphysiotomy, Kilbarry1? Or would I be regarded as spoiling the fun of an old ex member of the De La Salle order with that question?
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  10. #80
    Kilbarry1 Kilbarry1 is offline

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    Nora Wall and SOME "Survivors of Symphysiotomy"

    Quote Originally Posted by Lumpy Talbot View Post
    What about the two thirds of complainants who did undergo symphysiotomy, Kilbarry1? Or would I be regarded as spoiling the fun of an old ex member of the De La Salle order with that question?
    There is a separate thread on Symphysiotomy that I have referred to above [Post No 77] and it specifically relates to the fact that almost a third of the applicants for "Compensation" never had the operation at all. THIS thread refers to Nora Wall and the fact that the allegation against her - that she held down a child for Pablo McCabe to rape - sounds VERY similar to the false statements made by some of the Symph "Survivors". These compensation applicants claimed that they had been held down by nuns while being "assaulted" - in hospitals where there were no nuns!.

    Nora Wall was a former Sister of Mercy. She was accused by women who were ALSO looking for "Compensation". That's why I am comparing the two situations.
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