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  1. #3111
    General Urko General Urko is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    Laura Lee just tweeted:

    Laura Lee ���� ☘️‏
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    Three separate robberies of sex workers in Dublin last night. Three. Well done @FitzgeraldFrncs, you must be so proud right now.

    --
    Looks like opponents of the law were right it would put sex workers in more danger. The law criminalises them for working in groups indoors. Therefore they go on the streets in more danger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    Laura Lee just tweeted:

    Laura Lee ���� ☘️‏
    @GlasgaeLauraLee
    Following
    More
    Three separate robberies of sex workers in Dublin last night. Three. Well done @FitzgeraldFrncs, you must be so proud right now.

    --
    Looks like opponents of the law were right it would put sex workers in more danger. The law criminalises them for working in groups indoors. Therefore they go on the streets in more danger.
    Well one of its prominent supporters stated it will act as a deterrent to women entering the industry! Thus we have a rare law passed which was deliberately intended to cause harm! The only other one I can think of in my lifetime was The 8th amendment and even then, though it is an absolute disgrace, the harm is a by product rather than a deliberate intention with that ammendment!
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  2. #3112
    General Urko General Urko is offline
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    Charley will you repeal this insanity as a matter of urgency, Fitgerald resign and renounce your many pensions!
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  3. #3113
    General Urko General Urko is offline
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    Interesting tweet on this from sex worker and sex worker activist, Lady McGrew -

    https://twitter.com/LadyGrew/status/884379877759217666
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  4. #3114
    General Urko General Urko is offline
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    On 17th June 2017, the World Health Organization and the United Nations issued a joint statement on ending discrimination in health care settings which, inter alia, calls upon supporting States to review and repeal "punitive laws that have been proven to have negative health outcomes and that counter established public health evidence. These include laws that criminalize or otherwise prohibit .... adult consensual sex work".

    WHO | Joint United Nations statement on ending discrimination in health care settings

    This outrageous law putting peoples' lives in danger and knowingly enacted in that spirit has got to go!
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  5. #3115
    McTell McTell is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by General Urko View Post
    On 17th June 2017, // "punitive laws that have been proven to have negative health outcomes and that counter established public health evidence. These include laws that criminalize or otherwise prohibit .... adult consensual sex work".

    WHO | Joint United Nations statement on ending discrimination in health care settings

    This outrageous law putting peoples' lives in danger and knowingly enacted in that spirit has got to go!

    Consensual is the key word.

    I don't go for greyhound racing and coursing, but they happen. The dogs, bookies, taxman and punters all enjoy it, the live hare usually gets away, and if he doesn't, well, that's one that won't breed any slow hares.

    Greyhound racing is entertainment, fair enough, but some of us prefer being entertained by ladies expert at sensuality. That's all it is. Nothing to do with love or "buying people", just like coursing is not about feeding your family any more. It's a burst of sensuality that makes McTell a nicer, saner guy.
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  6. #3116
    Leandrai Leandrai is offline

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    I saw a very interesting and insightful article yesterday:
    https://amp.theguardian.com/world/20...etry-militancy

    Interesting in it's own right, everything I have seen would support it, but beyond that, I have come to suspect that radicalisation is one of the sickness of our times, and whatever ideology it attaches itself to, must surely follow a similar pattern.

    Let me show you a few points of marked similarity:

    In the language of behavioural economics, they werenít rational actors because they were acting in ways that often ran counter to their stated interests.
    • Help survival sexworkers out of poverty by reducing their market
    • Protect sexworkers by making sure they cannot go to the police if they want to have an income
    • Support sexworkers by silencing them and telling them who they are
    • Heal sexworkers by degrading, infantilising and gaslighting them
    • Raise awareness of sexwork by creating and promoting lies
    • Empower sexworkers by disempowering them


    It is also about rituals, customs and dress codes. It is about music, films and storytelling. It is about sports, jokes, and food.
    Humour is unevenly distributed in the movement Ė some of them can be quite funny and self-ironic, but the average level of self-irony is very low. Itís a movement that takes itself very seriously
    If you are aware of an aspect of radical feminism and/or the abolitionist movement the above cannot be applied to let me know.

    ...are prone to romanticise their own adversity and overlook that which they bring to others...
    Never more evident that when a prominent abolitionist was attacked by demonstrating sexworkers last week and instead of questioning what she might have done to cause these women she affects to care for to hate her so much, as any normal, healthy person would do, she embarked on a course of villifying them and whipping up anger against them...

    ..."never more evident" but never much less evident either, as these creatures destroy innocent vulnerable lives for a distortion of feminism easily as warped as ISIS ideology...and condemns and marginalises those who try to protest and resist the fate being meted out to them by a howling pack of soulless ideological nutters who are claiming to "help" them.

    I am not sure Dail privilege applies to Fitzgerald's statement in a private meeting that the law should be harmful as a deterrent - somebody should run that past a constitutional lawyer. Fitzgerald shouldn't mind, after all, if I am right about that the resulting damages may "rescue" several women from sexwork - unless it really is their favourite pastime, so all's well that ends well.
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  7. #3117
    Dame_Enda Dame_Enda is offline
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    Piece on Pat Kenny show this morning about 75% in segment in Part 2 on the Dorset Street protest against massage parlour.

    Listen back - 13240 - 38118 - 09th August 2017 - The Pat Kenny...

    Katie McGrew mentioned cases of knife attacks on Brazilian tg sex workers, and that clients are asking sex workers "are you alone?", because they know that the new law only bans the indoors selling of sex by more than one person, which counts as "brothelkeeping". But she also mentioned a 73 yr old prostitute working alone to raise money for a kidney for her sick son and who was arrested in a 'brothel' raid.

    There is no doubt that forcing sex workers out of Dorset street contributes to driving prostitution underground.
    Last edited by Dame_Enda; 9th August 2017 at 12:54 PM.
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  8. #3118
    General Urko General Urko is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leandrai View Post

    I am not sure Dail privilege applies to Fitzgerald's statement in a private meeting that the law should be harmful as a deterrent - somebody should run that past a constitutional lawyer. Fitzgerald shouldn't mind, after all, if I am right about that the resulting damages may "rescue" several women from sexwork - unless it really is their favourite pastime, so all's well that ends well.
    The statement the minister allegedly made to SWAI, should in any civilised state be sufficient to overturn this insane law. It is the only law bar one that I can think of where there wasan intention to harm people, the other one was The 8th ammendment, another despicably misogynistic law!
    Dail privilege would only apply to statements made in the Dail, surely!
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  9. #3119
    Leandrai Leandrai is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dame_Enda View Post
    Piece on Pat Kenny show this morning about 75% in segment in Part 2 on the Dorset Street protest against massage parlour.

    Listen back - 13240 - 38118 - 09th August 2017 - The Pat Kenny...

    Katie McGrew mentioned cases of knife attacks on Brazilian tg sex workers, and that clients are asking sex workers "are you alone?", because they know that the new law only bans the indoors selling of sex by more than one person, which counts as "brothelkeeping". But she also mentioned a 73 yr old prostitute working alone to raise money for a kidney for her sick son and who was arrested in a 'brothel' raid.

    There is no doubt that forcing sex workers out of Dorset street contributes to driving prostitution underground.
    The huge, HUGE problem, for the whole of society, with any form of criminalisation is that as soon as you criminalise something, in any way, you relinquish all legal and regulatory control over it.

    I *get* the public point of view, I used live in the heart of Rachman territory in London, where the women stood on the doorsteps waiting for kerb crawlers...I know it feels creepy for a "civilian". So, ok, the answer is non-confrontational licencing and zoning...which you cannot do when you criminalise.

    ...and dear lord God please tell me what kind of society has a woman of 73 selling sex to save her son's life under any circumstances? I understand Ruhama now have huge staff and 2.5 floors of plush offices and nobody ever sees them do anything but have meetings to congratulate themselves...while a woman of 73 has to sell sex to keep her son alive...

    Please somebody tell me how this accords with righteousness as defined by God or man?
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  10. #3120
    Leandrai Leandrai is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by General Urko View Post
    The statement the minister allegedly made to SWAI, should in any civilised state be sufficient to overturn this insane law. It is the only law bar one that I can think of where there wasan intention to harm people, the other one was The 8th ammendment, another despicably misogynistic law!
    Dail privilege would only apply to statements made in the Dail, surely!
    It only occurred to me when I was writing that, but I am pretty sure Dail privilege cannot be applied to statements made outside the Dail in front of numerous witnesses.

    Whatever perspective one takes on this the aim of sex work legislation has always ended in the aspiration to drive sex workers into a wall called "nowhere". NOBODY thinks of what will become of them if these intentions succeed.

    Nobody thinks of sex workers as human, they are just a commodity for civil society to trade.
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