Garda Ombudsman to investigate Terence Wheelock's death

[Kev408]

This is the best people are going to get. An independent investigation by an independent body. They found the was absolutely no evidence to suggest there was hand act or part by members of the Gardai. There were procedural problems relating to cells and custody regulations which, one presumes, will be dealt with.

Unfortunately all the evidence does not suggest that the poor man took his own life. Nobody is a winner in those circumstances, especially the family.

God forbid any formal institution gets it wrong or covers up, eh Corelli?

Despite 'An independent investigation by an independent body' the family are still crying out for exactly that - an independent investigation by an independent body.

I have always been inclined to lean towards a defence of the Gardai in cases like this but this whole case stinks. In the classic Irish cover-up I cannot even write what I know because I could be sued because I have no cast-iron proof. Fair enough, one might say, but when the very proof I cannot produce is being held by those found only 'incompetent' rather than culpable, my hands are tied.

Anyway, it would be interesting to know how many Gardai were demoted or, more appropriately, sacked for dereliction of duty that day. I guess we all know the answer to that.

[The_SR]

No matter whay way you look at it this is a sad case where someone took their own life and it highlighted procedural problems relating to custody.

Taking the string out of tracksuit bottoms while maybe the thing to do does effectively destroy them which held person would protest about and probably rightly.

The specific training and role of Custody Sargeants who have the power to request Doctors or Psychiatrist to examine the mental stability of persons arrested needs to be improved and the greater use as highlighted by Garda Commissioner of CCTV to protect both prisoner and garda needs to continue.

Family will never accept anything other than someone else is at fault which is sadly the norm in cases of suicide and will forever seek reasons thinking the "If Only I had done X he or she would still be alive".

There is no winner or loser here.

Explain to the group please how me managed to, literally, kick the shít out of himself?

[odie1kanobe]

Explain to the group please how me managed to, literally, kick the shít out of himself?

Three things that I am surprised that nobody in the media has picked up on about this case

1. Marie Cassidy stated in the coroners court that there was no evidence of bruising on Mr Wheelocks body so he wasn't abused by the Gardai (she examined him 3 months after he was admitted to hospital).

2. The family had to take a high court case to get his clothes back as the Gardai would not release them, why?

3. Why would the Commissioner give a damn what the ombudsman's office says

SR

Did you read the above before posting ?

[The_SR]

SR

Did you read the above before posting ?

Yes. Why did it take three months for her to look at the body?

Why did the Gardaí repaint the cell immediatly after his death?

The physical evidence here was clearly contaminated.

[Craiced]

This is the best people are going to get. An independent investigation by an independent body. They found the was absolutely no evidence to suggest there was hand act or part by members of the Gardai. There were procedural problems relating to cells and custody regulations which, one presumes, will be dealt with.

Unfortunately all the evidence does not suggest that the poor man took his own life. Nobody is a winner in those circumstances, especially the family.

Corelli, I've read your posts on this site and you seem a very knowledgeable person especially with regard to the law.

I note that you concede that "all the evidence does not suggest that the poor man took his own life".

What next for this poor family? This was not suicide. The family have been very dignified in their response to this situation. I would be incapable of acting with their restraint.

[Drumknot]

Yes. Why did it take three months for her to look at the body?

Why did the Gardaí repaint the cell immediatly after his death?

The physical evidence here was clearly contaminated.

AFIK Mr Wheelock was in a coma for 3 months before he died, hence the lack of bruising at the time of autopsy.

[odie1kanobe]

Yes. Why did it take three months for her to look at the body?

Why did the Gardaí repaint the cell immediatly after his death?

The physical evidence here was clearly contaminated.

SO 3 months after his attempt at suicide the station was repainted or are you suggesting that it should have just been cordoned off for months on end ?

[Craiced]

SO 3 months after his attempt at suicide the station was repainted or are you suggesting that it should have just been cordoned off for months on end ?

Who said it took 3 months to repair the cell? My understanding is that the cell was refurbished within a week. It need only have been cordoned off for a day if the necessary forensic, video and photographic evidence was collected from the cell by an independent body first.

If i was a trained Garda, a person who is used to arriving at crime scenes, would it not be reasonable to expect that after finding a badly bruised young man choking on a tracksuit chord in a suicide proof cell, that i would preserve the scene for detailed independent examination?

One would need to know how the suicide proof cell failed. As there are other such cells still in operation it is important to establish how an individual successfully managed to rip a steel plated vandal proof lamp fixing off a wall with nothing but his bare hands. (The report says he was searched before entering the cell) As the lamp fixing is 5ft off the ground and Trevor seems average height he was very determined to kill himself.

If I were a Garda I would definitely ensure that the scene was preserved for independent examination in case anyone might suggest that something more sinister took place. It is vitally important for the Gardaí that such accusations can never be made, that is why it is so important to be open and upfront in cases such as this.

The report states that there is no evidence to suggest that a crime took place but that there were several procedural errors. Given that the Gardaí’s reputation has taken a hammering over this case should the individuals involved not be disciplined? The head of Store Street Station should resign.

[corelli]

Corelli, I've read your posts on this site and you seem a very knowledgeable person especially with regard to the law.

I note that you concede that "all the evidence does not suggest that the poor man took his own life".

What next for this poor family? This was not suicide. The family have been very dignified in their response to this situation. I would be incapable of acting with their restraint.

Sorry, I should have said that all the evidence DOES suggest that he took his own life. I have corrected it. I say that on the basis that there is, according to the ombudsman, no evidence to the contrary. They found procedural issues, such as not having suicide proof cells and letting him have his track suit cord, thats about it. There really is no further action the family can take. They can attempt to judicially review the Ombudsman's decision, but, barring some procedural matter which would only result in a re-investigation, the Courts will not substitute their view for that of the expert body. Neither will the European Court of Human Rights. It is very sad all round.

[Sam Lord]

This is the best people are going to get. An independent investigation by an independent body. They found the was absolutely no evidence to suggest there was hand act or part by members of the Gardai. There were procedural problems relating to cells and custody regulations which, one presumes, will be dealt with.

Unfortunately all the evidence does suggest that the poor man took his own life. Nobody is a winner in those circumstances, especially the family.

I've been in public areas of Gardai stations that haven't been repainted in decades. I've been in Garda cells that looked like they hadn't been spruced up since the RIC handed them over.

Now, I haven't followed this case much but if you tell me the cell was repainted shortly after his death I am going to tell you that something very, very odd has occured.