Originally Posted by Telemachus

The current legal establishment are enablers of the exploitation and commodification of woman in Ireland.

They could arrest and deport 1000 prostitutes tonight if they wished too under the existing legislation. Most prostitutes in Ireland are not citizens.

This public consultation is buck passing and time wasting.

In the case of illegal migrants and/or those working in the sex trade not of their own volition I agree with you. Other than that the state should not legislate in this area, they should just remove vice legislation from the statute books.

Nothing to prevent the establishment of a red light district in an Irish city, operating entirely within the parameters of the law.

Originally Posted by MariaMcN

I'm not forcing my opinion down anyone's throat. If you can't listen to opinions that contrast with your own, stay away from political discussion sites.

Well Mary, you are advocating for legislation that would make paid for sex even more illegal. You back Ruhama (in fact you are probably their MD) who want all sex work in Ireland to end, regardless of what the women and men who work in this indutry want. That is forcing an opinion down people's throats.

Originally Posted by MariaMcN

You're the one who goes to the UK, I believe. Would these women consent if you weren't paying them? No, they wouldn't. You buy their consent. Bought consent is not legally or ethically sound consent.

Would I work for my boss if he wasnt paying me? No I wouldn't. He therefore buys my consent.

Originally Posted by pragmaticapproach

In the case of illegal migrants and/or those working in the sex trade not of their own volition I agree with you. Other than that the state should not legislate in this area, they should just remove vice legislation from the statute books.

Nothing to prevent the establishment of a red light district in an Irish city, operating entirely within the parameters of the law.

I think that there should be services made available for those working in the sex industry to take good care of their health.

Some state involvement from that end of things seems appropriate.

Obviously it goes without saying that those who are genuinely forced into any kind of work, be it sex work, domestic work or some other form of forced labour, should be afforded all assistance and those who instigate forced labour should be severely punished.

Originally Posted by MariaMcN

Would these women consent if you weren't paying them? No, they wouldn't. You buy their consent. Bought consent is not legally or ethically sound consent.

I only consent to go to work for money. I wouldn't do it for free. Is that ethically unsound?

I'm for legalisation of prostitution but I would restrict a permit to a geographical area. I think there is a big problem with people being moved around. The Gardai and concerned agencies should know who is working as a prostitute in an area. That way their welfare can be protected.

Originally Posted by PeeOKneel

you are correct in that I have had paid for consensual sex with other consenting adults, however I haven't done so here for many moons over concerns of trafficking! The law here nears to be made much stronger wrt this matter! RE my punting exploits - Je Ne Regrette Rien!

You are in Mary's bad books now...could you not have had the good grace to lie about your punting past

Originally Posted by MariaMcN

You're the one who goes to the UK, I believe. Would these women consent if you weren't paying them? No, they wouldn't. You buy their consent. Bought consent is not legally or ethically sound consent.

Would a man you didn't know go up a ladder and clean your chimney/paint the walls/put slates on your roof/etc if you didn't know them? I doubt it.
So doesn't seem like that is ethically sound by that definition.

People "sell themselves/their bodies" all the time.

If you believe that sexual relations should only take place in the context of marriage, it follow that you believe that sex should never be for sale. Its fine to believe that. While you are entitled to act according to your beliefs, you most certainly are not entitled to force your beliefs on other people. Legislation on sexual mores between people capable of consenting is generally a bad thing.

Just decided to read the following:

Discussion Document on Future Direction of Prostitution Legislation (Size - 329KB)
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/JELR/Discu...egislation.pdf

I've never studied law but found it an easy enough read (I'm on page 27).

It seems reasonably balanced although I don't know the area at all so may be missing things?

I have found it interesting to learn about the different policies in different countries, both decriminalisation in some countries and then the Swedish Model approach, which is critiqued a little.

Originally Posted by afns1

Just decided to read the following:

I've never studied law but found it an easy enough read (I'm on page 27).

It seems reasonably balanced although I don't know the area at all so may be missing things?

I have found it interesting to learn about the different policies in different countries, both decriminalisation in some countries and then the Swedish Model approach, which is critiqued a little.

Yes it does seem very even handed, I am glad that there is a distinction made between those that consent to sex work and those that are coerced. Its impossible to have a conversation with someone who insists that all who purchase sex from sex workers are paying to rape.