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  1. #11
    Toland Toland is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerhard dengler View Post
    I agree with you.

    The issue appears to be though : is a Roman Catholic priest legally obliged to report a crime, if a penitent confesses to committing a crime in the act of confession?
    Apparently not, unfortunately.
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  2. #12
    Diawlbach Diawlbach is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by sondagefaux View Post
    Why should the confessional be privileged?
    You can debate whether it should be, but the settled rule of law is that it is. So, the Bill changes nothing.
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  3. #13
    Des Quirell Des Quirell is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Pat View Post
    Interesting analysis. However, even if Shatter is spinning, why should priests be obliged to act as informants for the authorities? It smacks of totalitarianism for the sake of political correctness.
    In exactly the same way that you are obliged to report knowledge of the crimes covered by the act.

    The question that can be asked of you is this: why should priests be exempt from the act?
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  4. #14
    Odyessus Odyessus is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Des Quirell View Post
    In exactly the same way that you are obliged to report knowledge of the crimes covered by the act.

    The question that can be asked of you is this: why should priests be exempt from the act?
    Whether they are exempt or not is beside the point. Are we to arrest every priest in the country on suspicion of withholding information on criminality? Or what exact evidence are we to act on?
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  5. #15
    White Horse White Horse is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Des Quirell View Post
    why should priests be exempt from the act?

    Why should anyone?
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  6. #16
    Half Nelson Half Nelson is offline

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    Makes no practical difference either way. Priests won't tell - end of.

    The only thing at stake here is the government's agenda of appearing to subdue the CC.
    It's a corruption of our democratic system to make laws that are unenforceable or to use the law as an ideological battering ram.
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  7. #17
    goosebump goosebump is offline

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    What is at issue here is not the legal position (given that its highly unlikely an offender would confide in a priest if the offender knew that the priest was obliged to report them) but the fact that the church hierarchy has sought to assert the dominance of Canon Law yet again which gives lie to their claims that child safety is of utmost importance to them.

    On a more sinister level, the position of the hierarchy suggests that the offence of child abuse is in some way pardonable in the eyes of an "institution", which may well influence the moral attitude of the offender in their commission of the crime.

    Despicable stuff.
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  8. #18
    sondagefaux sondagefaux is offline
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    This is what the Ombudsman for Children had to say about sacerdotal privilege in relation to this bill:

    While it is for the Attorney General to advise on the constitutionality of any proposed legislation, this Office does not believe that it would be unconstitutional for the legislation to be extended to the confessional and this Office recommends that it be so extended. In any event, it should be clarified that sacerdotal privilege in respect of communications outside the confessional cannot give rise to a reasonable excuse.
    http://www.oco.ie/assets/files/publi...dingAdvice.pdf
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  9. #19
    gerhard dengler gerhard dengler is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Des Quirell View Post
    In exactly the same way that you are obliged to report knowledge of the crimes covered by the act.

    The question that can be asked of you is this: why should priests be exempt from the act?
    That is a reasonable question.

    And the answer to this lies in how confessions are undertaken.
    The penitent and the priest are separated in the confessional.
    The priest and the penitent don't see each other.
    The penitent is not required to provide proof of the statements he/she makes during the confessional.
    The penitent is not required to name/disclose details of the crime/sins committed during the confessional.

    In essence the penitent utters the crime/sin committed and asks the priest to dispense absolution.

    Try going to the Gardai with that paucity of data and ask them to investigate the matter.
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  10. #20
    Half Nelson Half Nelson is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Odyessus View Post
    Whether they are exempt or not is beside the point. Are we to arrest every priest in the country on suspicion of withholding information on criminality? Or what exact evidence are we to act on?
    That was tried before. It worked wonders in cementing Catholicism as the dominant religion in Ireland. There's nothing like a bit of oppression to revitalise an idea.
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