Senator Rónán Mullen wants an abortion Referendum

[Luachara]

Both would be pretty much impossible to enforce, and aren't very likely to pass.

The one question about abortion that Irish people have never been asked in a referendum is if it should be legalised.

I'd be willing to bet that if Irish people were asked if they wanted abortion legalised in the circumstances set out in my previous post, they'd say Yes.

I'd also be willing to bet that most Irish people would be in favour of abortion being legally available under even wider conditions, such as pregnancy resulting in other long-term, serious health problems, and where the child would be born with certain serious birth defects.

The postion of the Irish People as I understand it when last determined was that they favoured permitting pregnant women to travel outside the State, even to have an abortion if they wished, but that they did not favour them having abortions here.

['orebel]

Yay...... Boo...... Meh.

[cbyrne11]

The postion of the Irish People as I understand it when last determined was that they favoured permitting pregnant women travelling outside the State to have an abortion if they wished, but that they did not favour them having abortions here.

A very principaled stance!

[MrD011]

Is he too young to remember the bitterness and sheer nastiness that took over the country when we last went to the polls on this one.

You are going to see a lot of nastiness in the years to come in this country as people are not happy with the system .

[LamportsEdge]

Thats right ... the woman may be Irish, get pregnant in Ireland, make the decision to have an abortion in Ireland, book the clinic by email from Ireland, set out from Ireland but as long as the abortion takes place outside Irish territorial waters then there is no abortion in Ireland except in certain Irish circumstances.

Its a very Irish cultural solution.

[tonic]

You neglected to highlight the word 'intentional' in his quote. He is not arguing against treatment for a woman which might, as an unintended and secondary consequence, kill the unborn child.

What do you expect here, honesty?

[an modh coinniolach]

IMO it's likely to be deferred until at least the "2nd term" when there's the slim hope life will have improved and we'll all have calmed down .

If previous experiences are anything to go by it's probably the one issue that there is no chance that people will calm down over. If there is such a referendum it'll make P.ie's Northern Ireland forum look like a model of temperate sanity.

[Luachara]

A very principaled stance!

It seems that almost 5000 women a year provide Irish addresses in UK abortion clinics. The likely hood is that many others would provide english addresses.

The stress and aftercare for these unfortunate women could be greatly reduced with provision of the service in Ireland, and the demand and need is arising in Ireland. It would boost employment too.

[toxic avenger]

So he'd have been against this woman getting an abortion?



US Catholic hospital's ties to church cut over abortion that saved mother | World news | The Guardian

I'd welcome a referendum on abortion, so long as the question was along these lines:

'Should abortion be legal in Ireland if the pregnancy results in a threat to the life of the mother (including from a risk of suicide), and if the pregnancy results from rape (including statutory rape), and/or incest, and if the pregnancy would pose a serious risk to the mother's eyesight*, and if the pregnancy would inevitably result in a stillbirth or an anencephalic birth?'


*See Tysiac case: Tysi

I can't answer for him. I'd argue that such cases are rare in the extreme, and that if the anti-abortion campaigners said to pro-choice campaigners that they'd be prepared to compromise and support a worldwide ban on abortion except in those extreme cases, the pro-choice lobby would have a fit. Those cases are used disingenuously.

My personal opinion is that such a woman should be allowed to make the choice herself where it is a clear 'mother or baby dies' situation so long as the intervention is primarily used to save the mother, not aimed to kill the baby, and that there is no moral culpability attached to such a decision. I'd also need to know that there was absolutely no way of treating the mother's condition without the child dying as a secondary and unintended effect. I'm not convinced that was the position in the case you quote.

In terms of your proposed question, I'd answer 'no' to every single scenario. 'Risk of suicide' is an open door - who judges that? The other cases involve killing children who are not at fault. It is not morally permissable to kill to prevent or alleviate another evil (even in the case of a raped girl or a risk to the mother's health). It is, however, permissable to allow medical intervention to save a mother's life that cause the death of a child as an unintended consequence.

[Socratus O' Pericles]

I didn't expect calls for an abortion referendum right now. Irish people might use it to vote on the economy,burning the bondholders, septic tanks or the overall performance of the Government they are that thick.