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  1. #71
    seanad voter seanad voter is offline

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    I've held my whist while I digested the Report in full and read various commentaries in today's press and listened to Morning Ireland etc.

    Just a couple of points, if I may :

    I'm delighted that Gilmore is calling in the Papal Nuncio as I advocated yesterday - long, long overdue in my estimation of the seriousness of this crisis with the Vatican state's conduct and meddling in a supposedly sovereign republic.

    I note President McAleese has made a comment (reported in The Irish Times). Is this appropriate, I wonder ? The president should not get involved in these matters - and certainly not while the executive is still dealing with them - and this particular president is doubly-compromised in that (1) she has twice publicly and legally represented the Irish Catholic Church and (2) now her husband is heading up a further Inquiry into the State's (of which she is titular Head) management of the Magdalene affair.
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  2. #72
    Cruimh Cruimh is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toland View Post
    I think clericalism is just one aspect of the island's major problem since the War of Independence: Orthodox Roman Catholicism.

    Clericalism is only one fundamental part of the theology and practice of this religion, amongst many other deeply damaging theological teachings.
    I'd say it predates Independence and I wouldn't limit it to the RCC .
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  3. #73
    Fantasia Fantasia is offline
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    Reprehensible, contemptible and criminal.
    and that just those who aid and abet in the commission of these heinous crimes against children..

    you can run but you can't hide
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  4. #74
    seanad voter seanad voter is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fantasia View Post
    you can run but you can't hide
    Naw, the best thing is that some of 'em can't even run anymore.
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  5. #75
    RyeSixSeven RyeSixSeven is offline

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    Cloyne Report - Saturday View 16 Jul 2011

    <Mod>Thread merged with existing one. This was the OP of the merged thread. Title; Cloyne Report, Saturday View 16th July.<Mod>

    David Quinn laying into Bishop Magee about findings of fault against him in the report. I thought Quinn was an apologist for the Catholic hierarchy, but this is surprising. Is it evidence that Magee is being cut adrift by his brethern and will be encouraged to take some form of punishment - ie having a title removed.
    Last edited by Cato; 16th July 2011 at 01:51 PM.
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  6. #76
    wombat wombat is offline
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    At least Shatter is keeping the focus on the most important issue.
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  7. #77
    Cruimh Cruimh is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSixSeven View Post
    David Quinn laying into Bishop Magee about findings of fault against him in the report. I thought Quinn was an apologist for the Catholic hierarchy, but this is surprising. Is it evidence that Magee is being cut adrift by his brethern and will be encouraged to take some form of punishment - ie having a title removed.
    Scape-goating.....
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  8. #78
    Half Nelson Half Nelson is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSixSeven View Post
    David Quinn laying into Bishop Magee about findings of fault against him in the report. I thought Quinn was an apologist for the Catholic hierarchy, but this is surprising. Is it evidence that Magee is being cut adrift by his brethern and will be encouraged to take some form of punishment - ie having a title removed.
    90% of what passes here for comment on the RCC is what people 'think'. Most of it is complete ignorance garnered from tabloid headlines and personal hangups. Watch this thread for plenty more of the same.
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  9. #79
    Cato Cato is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by RyeSixSeven View Post
    David Quinn laying into Bishop Magee about findings of fault against him in the report. I thought Quinn was an apologist for the Catholic hierarchy, but this is surprising. Is it evidence that Magee is being cut adrift by his brethern and will be encouraged to take some form of punishment - ie having a title removed.
    Magee or indeed any bishop cannot, theologically speaking, be 'de-bishoped'. They can, and Magee has, lose their diocese, but they will always, even if excommunicated, remain sacramentally a bishop. RCs believe that ordination (or for that matter baptism and confirmation) leave an indelible mark on the soul.

    "For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec."
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  10. #80
    Michael Nugent Michael Nugent is offline

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    How can we believe, without corroboration, anything that members of the Irish Catholic Hierarchy say in cases where it is in their interest to mislead us?

    That is surely the central question that arises from the Cloyne Report, especially when seen alongside the previous revelation that Archbishop Desmond Connell of Dublin was happy to deliberately mislead people by a process that he described as ‘mental reservation’.

    Putting aside the content of the sexual abuse allegations, which are of course shockingly serious, the Cloyne Report reveals that various permutations of the Cloyne Diocese, Bishop John Magee and Monsignor Denis O’Callaghan “positively lied” [21.79], “positively misled” [21.79], “deliberately misled” [21.91], deliberately created two different accounts of the same meeting, a true one for the Vatican and a false one for the local diocesan files [1.48], gave false assurances to the Government Minister for Children and the Health Service Executive [1.77], “tried to bury the matter” of the requirement to report “evidence of a vicious sexual assault” [16.19], advised that statements to the gardai should be “minimal” [9.84-85], failed to give its own advisory committees full information [1.36], “put out an erroneous view” about a report [1.40], produced crucial documents that were wrongly dated [12.29], and held three different versions of one meeting in diocesan files [21.27].

    Here's my overview of the Cloyne report's findings about this.
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