3 years jail for throwing cigarette

[HanleyS]

But a resounding NO to dealing with correction in equal measure. Why should we. They lost their right to their equality as soon as they broke the law by victimising a totally innocent person.?

I meant correction in the sentencing sense. By in equal measure I meant in terms of resources.

Absolutely. Thats my point. Getting caught should be a deterrent but it isn't! Why would it be when you have all the things I mentioned earlier?

I wouldn't be bothered about the whole holiday camp thing. The only purpose prisons seem to serve is to keep these people away from doing harm. Whether they are bored while doing so or not does not concern me.

The mobile phones, sure that is a matter for concern. As such the smuggling is a matter for concern. The fact that these guys are conducting their enterprises from behind bars shows that the single purpose mentioned above is not being met.

With regard to drugs, Heroin is available in Mountjoy the same as it is available everywhere else. The drug problem is of no more concern than anywhere else. This is one area where a hell of a lot of work could be done on prevention.

Incidentally, be careful Big Brother (Enda) is watching...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp= ... Y&rss=rss1

[Kev408]

But a resounding NO to dealing with correction in equal measure. Why should we. They lost their right to their equality as soon as they broke the law by victimising a totally innocent person.?

I meant correction in the sentencing sense. By in equal measure I meant in terms of resources.

Absolutely. Thats my point. Getting caught should be a deterrent but it isn't! Why would it be when you have all the things I mentioned earlier?

I wouldn't be bothered about the whole holiday camp thing. The only purpose prisons seem to serve is to keep these people away from doing harm. Whether they are bored while doing so or not does not concern me.

The mobile phones, sure that is a matter for concern. As such the smuggling is a matter for concern. The fact that these guys are conducting their enterprises from behind bars shows that the single purpose mentioned above is not being met.

With regard to drugs, Heroin is available in Mountjoy the same as it is available everywhere else. The drug problem is of no more concern than anywhere else. This is one area where a hell of a lot of work could be done on prevention.

Incidentally, be careful Big Brother (Enda) is watching...

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/?jp= ... Y&rss=rss1

Really? *looks around* Thats a lovely blue shirt ye have on, man!

The mobile phone part is particularly disturbing; at least one half of the entire Drimnagh-Crumlin feud is being orchestrated from prison - I even know what prison and whose making the calls! But the sense I get from your posts is that you've no problem whatever they do once they're unable to run their 'businesses' from inside. To me this is not acceptable. And as always the victims feelings are being completely, totally dismissed from the discussion.

How do you think the mother of a dead heroin addict feels when she sees the news on her 26 inch TV that John Gilligan had a mobile phone and a 36 inch widescreen TV in his cell - and that the wardens had nothing to do with getting it in and knew nothing about it? Then the next item is about Fahy leaking a memo to the press from inside Castlereagh Prison. She probably would think what a lot of people are thinking. In Ireland today there is an underclass and upperclass and it doesn't matter if you're a killer or drug dealer you can still join the upperclass.

Its a farcical system that only makes victims of crimes, victims again and again and again and usually treats the perpetrators with often breath-taking leniency again and again and again. I really think our standards are so low that we're all delighted that that cowardly rapist had his 3 year sentence reactivated today. We should be marching the streets in protest.

[Kev408]

Oh my God. I just read the link you provided! You're welcome Enda!

[HanleyS]

The mobile phone part is particularly disturbing; at least one half of the entire Drimnagh-Crumlin feud is being orchestrated from prison - I even know what prison and whose making the calls!

Not to mention the murder of Baiba Saulite unfortunately.

But the sense I get from your posts is that you've no problem whatever they do once they're unable to run their 'businesses' from inside. To me this is not acceptable. And as always the victims feelings are being completely, totally dismissed from the discussion.

That's where we may differ. I don't believe that prisons achieve a lot other than keeping criminals from harming people. The whole punishment thing doesn't really float my boat. I don't really see that it achieves much.

In Ireland today there is an underclass and upperclass and it doesn't matter if you're a killer or drug dealer you can still join the upperclass.

I'm sure some people listen to the way I talk of crime as 'enterprise' and wonder what I'm on. Criminal Enterprise is a form of enterprise like any other and as such has it's big fishes and it's little fishes.

I really think our standards are so low that we're all delighted that that cowardly rapist had his 3 year sentence reactivated today. We should be marching the streets in protest.

In some parts he would be condemed to death, in others he would lose his weaponry, who's to say what the appropriate sanction is. I personally don't know.

I do believe a more holistic approach to crime and social problems is necessary. I am also convinced that prevention is a million times better than cure. I have been a victim of petty crime a few times in the last number of years, I would much rather these acts had not happened than that the perpetrators get sanctioned.

[unicorn]

But in effect it's 3 years jail for throwing a cigarette, not even for rape.

Not at all. He was jailed for breaking the strict, detailed conditions of his suspended sentence. A suspended sentence is a sentence - it's not 'getting off'.

The fact that he did it on the very day that he was handed down a suspended tells alot about his attitude - like another Limerick criminal did on the steps of The Four Courts, he was giving two fingers to the judge, to the girl he had raped and to the judicial system.

If he had behaved himself after his trial, he would still be free.

[Kev408]

I hear what you're saying HanleyS. I have to head off now but the next time we could chat about the fact that 'rehabilitation' is a proven abject failure and the fact that deterrence is not that important to victims - retribution (that nasty word) is - and they should have it.

One thing before I go and it's regarding people wondering what you're on! Imagine a scenario were a joy-rider (not PC - too tired) kills an innocent passerby. Its the usual story - 20th conviction so we better give him a sentence this time and oh yeah a bloke died. So they lash him out of it with a viscious 2 year sentence. I wouldn't. I'd put him a cell and gladly provide him with a widescreen 36 inch TV. For 12 hours a day he would be made to watch videos playing over and over again of victims (any victims, any country) going through the death of one of their children, the hospital, the reality, the mangled bones, the blood, the funeral, and the ************************ty residual effects the death of a child has on a family. He should get 2 hour breaks and he can watch Traffic School instead. I cannot guarantee but I suggest strongly that this particular little b*stard wouldn't do it again! And I'd only jail him for 3 months!!

Naturally, my plan needs refinement and is a tiny bit tongue-in-cheek but still - think about it at least. Nice discussing it with you. Catchya again.

[HanleyS]

LOL on the plan. Maybe you could use the current road safety ad from the RSA. It's wuite disturbing.

In a sick twist of fate, I wrote that last post from the library in UCD yesterday evening. I left the library only to find someone had attempted to break into my car. They had done a little bit of damage, nothing major. I thought it was an eery coincidence though.

[michael1965]

But in effect it's 3 years jail for throwing a cigarette, not even for rape.

Not at all. He was jailed for breaking the strict, detailed conditions of his suspended sentence. A suspended sentence is a sentence - it's not 'getting off'.

It's hard not to conclude that the media publicity had a lot to do with it, and also this strange standoff between Carney and the Court of criminal appeal. Was he trying to save his own embarrassment, in case the appeal judges rap him on the knuckles over it. I wonder what happens to that case now anyway? I presume it still goes ahead.

[cyberianpan]

Irish Examiner

He was given a three years suspended sentence on March 12 and entered into a bond to keep the peace after the court was told he intended to go to England as soon as possible.

Mr Justice Carney said the hearing on the issue of Keane breaching his bond arose out of [color=red]""an editorial in the Irish Examiner" [/color]and he accepted the evidence of the victim and members of her family that he had flicked a cigarette "at or in their direction ….. In a triumphalist gesture" only hours after leaving the court in March.

[color=red]"This amounts to an assault, or at least to a breach of the peace [/color]and is a breach of the bond entered into in this court," Mr Justice Carney ruled and ordered that he begin to serve the sentence immediately.

"My tolerance of breaches of court orders is well known to be nil [color=red]and the threshold of proof I require to find a breach is very low." [/color]

I know others have had their say & that technically flicking a cigarette might be assault. However the judge's own language, concerned with an editorial, admitting he had low standards... has "breach of the peace" ever been entered as proven with lower standards than this ?

cYp