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  1. #21
    Kevin Parlon Kevin Parlon is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisco View Post
    Incorrect: marriage to an EU citizen gives th right to move with them to another EU state. It does no confer any righ to reside within the EU per se.

    In Ireland the probing and proof requirements come at the stage of requesting permanent residence, which is after 3 years of marriage, or when applying for a marriage visa, as is the case in Australia.

    This entire thread is based on a false premise.
    Is this wrong then?
    Weddings in Ireland and Moving to Ireland with a Non-EU Spouse

    Marriage in Ireland to a non-EU Citizen

    If your non-national spouse entered Ireland on a visitor's visa or authorization, you may be worried about their status after your marriage in Ireland. Don't be - unless the new spouse is from a visa-required nation. In that case, see below.

    There is no problem if you celebrate your nuptials before the visa expires. If the wedding ceremony will take place later than the non-national's visa allows, he or she will have to report to the Dublin Garda National Immigration Office or the local Garda station. This visit must take place prior to the date stamped on the passport or visa. For an extension, the non-national will have to present pre-nuptial papers.

    In other words, the wedding will have to be scheduled and official documents to that effect have to be presented in order to get an extension. Once married, both non-national and the Irish spouse need to go back to the Garda Station/Immigration Office. Both partners will need to present passports and the marriage licence. If you do this in Dublin, the non-national will walk out of the office with a residency permit. If you do it outside of Dublin, it will take a few days for the permit to arrive. Once the permit has arrived, the non-national is free to work without any need for a work permit.
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  2. #22
    pinemartin pinemartin is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    Uh-oh. I got to stop that Hijack right there. That is NOT what this thread is about. It is about .... (again)

    1) why isn't it being stopped and 2) doesn't this show that we do not value the right to residency in Ireland and 3) why do you think that is?
    well the tread is really about all these "uninvited illegals" who you would prefer were not in this beautiful sacred land. I think that is really what it is about.
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  3. #23
    pinemartin pinemartin is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    Is this wrong then?
    Weddings in Ireland and Moving to Ireland with a Non-EU Spouse

    Marriage in Ireland to a non-EU Citizen

    If your non-national spouse entered Ireland on a visitor's visa or authorization, you may be worried about their status after your marriage in Ireland. Don't be - unless the new spouse is from a visa-required nation. In that case, see below.

    There is no problem if you celebrate your nuptials before the visa expires. If the wedding ceremony will take place later than the non-national's visa allows, he or she will have to report to the Dublin Garda National Immigration Office or the local Garda station. This visit must take place prior to the date stamped on the passport or visa. For an extension, the non-national will have to present pre-nuptial papers.

    In other words, the wedding will have to be scheduled and official documents to that effect have to be presented in order to get an extension. Once married, both non-national and the Irish spouse need to go back to the Garda Station/Immigration Office. Both partners will need to present passports and the marriage licence. If you do this in Dublin, the non-national will walk out of the office with a residency permit. If you do it outside of Dublin, it will take a few days for the permit to arrive. Once the permit has arrived, the non-national is free to work without any need for a work permit.
    what do you mean by the wedding will have to be scheduled and what official document must the people have?
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  4. #24
    Chrisco Chrisco is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    Is this wrong then?
    Weddings in Ireland and Moving to Ireland with a Non-EU Spouse

    Marriage in Ireland to a non-EU Citizen

    If your non-national spouse entered Ireland on a visitor's visa or authorization, you may be worried about their status after your marriage in Ireland. Don't be - unless the new spouse is from a visa-required nation. In that case, see below.

    There is no problem if you celebrate your nuptials before the visa expires. If the wedding ceremony will take place later than the non-national's visa allows, he or she will have to report to the Dublin Garda National Immigration Office or the local Garda station. This visit must take place prior to the date stamped on the passport or visa. For an extension, the non-national will have to present pre-nuptial papers.

    In other words, the wedding will have to be scheduled and official documents to that effect have to be presented in order to get an extension. Once married, both non-national and the Irish spouse need to go back to the Garda Station/Immigration Office. Both partners will need to present passports and the marriage licence. If you do this in Dublin, the non-national will walk out of the office with a residency permit. If you do it outside of Dublin, it will take a few days for the permit to arrive. Once the permit has arrived, the non-national is free to work without any need for a work permit.
    Yes it is wrong. The non-national gets a Stamp 3, granting temporary permission to stay but not work, while their application is being reviewed.
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  5. #25
    pinemartin pinemartin is online now
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevin Parlon View Post
    Is this wrong then?
    Weddings in Ireland and Moving to Ireland with a Non-EU Spouse

    Marriage in Ireland to a non-EU Citizen

    If your non-national spouse entered Ireland on a visitor's visa or authorization, you may be worried about their status after your marriage in Ireland. Don't be - unless the new spouse is from a visa-required nation. In that case, see below.

    There is no problem if you celebrate your nuptials before the visa expires. If the wedding ceremony will take place later than the non-national's visa allows, he or she will have to report to the Dublin Garda National Immigration Office or the local Garda station. This visit must take place prior to the date stamped on the passport or visa. For an extension, the non-national will have to present pre-nuptial papers.

    In other words, the wedding will have to be scheduled and official documents to that effect have to be presented in order to get an extension. Once married, both non-national and the Irish spouse need to go back to the Garda Station/Immigration Office. Both partners will need to present passports and the marriage licence. If you do this in Dublin, the non-national will walk out of the office with a residency permit. If you do it outside of Dublin, it will take a few days for the permit to arrive. Once the permit has arrived, the non-national is free to work without any need for a work permit.
    you are confused they are taking about a non eu citizen marrying an irish citizen not marriying an eu one.
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  6. #26
    FutureTaoiseach FutureTaoiseach is offline
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    This is a matter of urgency as studies in the UK found that 75% of terrorist-plots originate in Pakistan. In that context, there is a threat that Islamist terrorists will exploit this loophole in order to either use Ireland as a base to attack other EU states, or else to attack targets in this republic. We shouldn't have to wait for that to happen (assuming it hasn't already) before taking action to prevent it by closing the loophole. The burden should be on would-be migrants to prove their bona-fides before coming here. Ireland doesn't owe anyone a better life except Irish citizens. It is naive in the extreme to assume that loopholes will not be exploited - not least loopholes as publicised as these.
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  7. #27
    Kevin Parlon Kevin Parlon is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by pinemartin View Post
    you are confused they are taking about a non eu citizen marrying an irish citizen not marriying an eu one.
    The EU party to the marriage being Irish or not is not relevant to my OP.
    Last edited by Kevin Parlon; 17th August 2010 at 06:51 AM.
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  8. #28
    Kevin Parlon Kevin Parlon is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrisco View Post
    Yes it is wrong. The non-national gets a Stamp 3, granting temporary permission to stay but not work, while their application is being reviewed.
    I am drawing a comparision with the state of discourse in Australia as compared to that in Ireland and the related matter of the seriousness with which officialdom carries out its duties in the granting residency (of any colour) to those who engage in patently fraudulent scam marriages.

    You have ignored that, and proceeded to engage in a hair splitting excercise (permanent vs. other types of residency) in a bid to shut down the discussion, perhaps because you are uncomfortable the topic or the opinions you perceive others to have expressed on this thread.

    Semantics are a poor substitute for reasoned argument. But so you do not try to paint me as avoiding it; You have already contracdicted yourself. (First: Doesn't grant residency Then: Grants a type of residency) You attacked on that technicality in a bid to shut down the discussion.

    Getting a scam marriage done grants the right to stay in Ireland and move to any EU country. (If I am wrong here which of course I could be, point me to the relevant law which contradicts that last sentance). It would seem your assetion is also at odds with the IT op piece today. Few legal means to restrict rise in bogus unions - The Irish Times - Tue, Aug 17, 2010
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  9. #29
    biffo50 biffo50 is offline

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    The irony is that non-EU citizens who marry other EU citizens e.g. Latvians, have the right to live in Ireland under EU law (the Government's efforts to control this were foiled by the European Court) but those who marry Irish citizens do not have such rights, let's be clear about that.
    My wife is a non-EU citizen, but had legal status here before we were married. But I am aware of cases where people did not have status and did not have the right to stay.
    As regards the sham marriages between Asians and Latvians, I am told that under Latvian law, you can get divorced in three months. Registrars tell me the guards are turning up to prevent ceremonies like this, but I suppose they can't get to them all.
    Apparently, most of the Asians in question do not want to stay in Ireland, but use Ireland as a backdoor to live in Britain. Certainly, I agree there is a need for a law to prevent this type of abuse, but at the same time, without penalising people who are genuine couples e.g. I know a Latvian woman who married an Algerian, they are a genuine couple, still together after a number of years.
    I am told there are relatively few Irish marrying in registry offices now, since the law was changed to let people marry in e.g. hotels. I am not sure if that's the case all over the country, would be interested to know.
    Incidentally, and nothing to do with this topic, but I see a Dublin priest is refusing to marry people unless they have had a civil ceremony first. Anyone know anything about the comments of Father Arthur O'Neill?
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  10. #30
    Kevin Parlon Kevin Parlon is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by biffo50 View Post
    The irony is that non-EU citizens who marry other EU citizens e.g. Latvians, have the right to live in Ireland under EU law (the Government's efforts to control this were foiled by the European Court) but those who marry Irish citizens do not have such rights, let's be clear about that.
    My wife is a non-EU citizen, but had legal status here before we were married. But I am aware of cases where people did not have status and did not have the right to stay.
    As regards the sham marriages between Asians and Latvians, I am told that under Latvian law, you can get divorced in three months. Registrars tell me the guards are turning up to prevent ceremonies like this, but I suppose they can't get to them all.
    Apparently, most of the Asians in question do not want to stay in Ireland, but use Ireland as a backdoor to live in Britain. Certainly, I agree there is a need for a law to prevent this type of abuse, but at the same time, without penalising people who are genuine couples e.g. I know a Latvian woman who married an Algerian, they are a genuine couple, still together after a number of years.
    I am told there are relatively few Irish marrying in registry offices now, since the law was changed to let people marry in e.g. hotels. I am not sure if that's the case all over the country, would be interested to know.
    Incidentally, and nothing to do with this topic, but I see a Dublin priest is refusing to marry people unless they have had a civil ceremony first. Anyone know anything about the comments of Father Arthur O'Neill?
    I am also married to a non-EU citizen and am acutely aware of the price that this abuse extracts from genuine couples. It would appear the whole process currently grossly inconvenieces genuine couples whilst at the same time doing very little to nothing to prevent the abuse of the system by queue jumpers and unregularised migrants. A typical dog's dinner and commensurate with the value placed on Irish residency by the government.
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