Irish Judges; Are they crap or just bad?

[hiker]

It turns out that one of the guys shot dead in Lusk yesterday is well know to the Gardai, has been up before the judges on many occasions and has been "let off" because he was a junkie.

Is it just me or does anybody else think that the current district, circuit and criminal court judges should be fecked out and replaced with people who will take action against these muppets?

[badinage]

Judges are required to take drug addiction into account as a mitigating factor when sentencing. You don't need to replace the current judges: you could just pass a law stating that drug addiction is not to be taken into account when passing sentence.

[hiker]

Judges are required to take drug addiction into account as a mitigating factor when sentencing. You don't need to replace the current judges: you could just pass a law stating that drug addiction is not to be taken into account when passing sentence.

So the "mitigating circumstances" issiu is actually written in law?

I thought all sentencing was at the "discretion" of judges and that the lenght of sentencing was written into the statute books

[badinage]

as I understand it, the maximum sentence is laid down by statute, so for example the maximum a judge can sentence a indivdual convicted of possession of stolen property is 5 years. However, in practice, judges have discretion, and would virtually never sentence anyone to 5 years for possessing an item of stolen property.

Once convicted, of course, a prisoner will rarely serve his full term. When an individual is sentenced to life imprisonment for murder, on average they will be released in 8-12 years.

I'm not sure whether the drug addiction issue is statute based or caselaw (I assume the latter), however judges still have discretion as to the precise sentence to impose.

[hiker]

Exactly. Judges have the discretion and hardly ever use it.

Thae garda are busting their balls trying to catch and prosecute the muppets and what happens?????

The muppets are set free with a wrist slap

Those guys might NOT have been shot is the f'*king judiciary did their f$*king jobs right

[borderlinegenius]

There is also the issue of mandatory sentences. In their eternal wisdom, this government brought in mandatory 10 year sentences for intent to supply drugs.

The judges have refused to implement it. Why? Because it's a stupid catch-all law which is entirely unjust and ignorant - a bit like our drug laws in fact.

I have no great love for the Irish judicary, but I salute their common sense in disregarding this particular law.

[badinage]

Basically Hiker, the issues you're raising are to do with whether the legal system should be based on protecting society from criminals, or trying to reform criminals to prevent them re-offending and to prevent them drawing others (e.g their off-spring) into the criminal life - which in the long-run protects society from criminals.

At the moment, the USA is experimenting with focusing on purely protecting society from criminals (e.g. the Three Strikes Rule). It currently has the largest prison population in the world (larger than China, which has 4 times the population). Crime levels are lower in the USA than they were in the 80s: but back then the economy was depressed and many working class areas were suffering severely. The fact that the American prison population continues to grow suggests that the threat of life imprisonment doesn't seem to be much of a deterrent to petty or low-level crime, so it'll be interesting to see what happens if the American economy does into a depression.

Remember also, what's in the public interest: it costs the taxpayer €80,000 to keep someone in prison, and €250k if its a minor. Would it be better or worse for the economy and the taxpayer if petty criminals were out on the streets?

[borderlinegenius]

By the way, putting drug addicts in jail is not likely to address their illness.

(Then again, maybe we should throw alcoholics in the slammer as well.)

[hiker]

I have no great love for the Irish judicary, but I salute their common sense in disregarding this particular law.

Supreme Court 8 judges
High Court 30 judges
Circuit court 30 judges
District court 53 judges

Total 120 judges (end 2003 figures)

So these 120 people can override the wishes of the people represented by the Government?

badinage wrote:
"Remember also, what's in the public interest: it costs the taxpayer €80,000 to keep someone in prison, and €250k if its a minor. Would it be better or worse for the economy and the taxpayer if petty criminals were out on the streets?"

So money is more important than quality of life? It's my money the government are spending so if I want the muppets locked up I will vote for a candidate who will endeavour to do this.
The judges are also paid for by me and they are giving my government the finger.

[borderlinegenius]

I have no great love for the Irish judicary, but I salute their common sense in disregarding this particular law.

Supreme Court 8 judges
High Court 30 judges
Circuit court 30 judges
District court 53 judges

Total 120 judges (end 2003 figures)

So these 120 people can override the wishes of the people represented by the Government?

No, not they can. They are. And I think that's great.

Also, the government does not necessarily represent the wishes of 'the people'.