Dermot Ahern throws a strop - pulls out of GRA Conference address.

[Drumknot]

Were those Guards following orders based on legislation enacted by a parliament composed of representatives elected in free and open elections?

Yes German federal election, March 1933 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Fair play to the outgoing president of the GRA for calling it as it is. An Garda Síochána have gone down in my opinion in the last few years with the likes of Donegal, Corrib, Terance Wheelock & Ciaran Boylán. This statement/speech reinforces my belief that the ordinary member deserves all our support (despite the orders that come down from above) in doing a difficult job and at least their moral compass has not been corrupted.

For those that feel that this may constitute an attack on the democratic process an easy way to deal with this is to call an election and allow the people decide if they want to support the Minister of Justice over the GRA.

[goosebump]

Its indicative of how much a asylum this forum as become when there are so many posters who can't distinguish between the realm of the State and the realm of Politics.

The principle that the forces of law and order do not challenge the authority of an elected Government dates back to the Roman Empire, and is a cornerstone of every stable democracy.

But apparently that counts for nothing when a Government is unpopular.

[goosebump]

Yes German federal election, March 1933 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

When was the next free and open election after that, and from what date did the camps exist?

[He3]

Its indicative of how much a asylum this forum as become when there are so many posters who can't distinguish between the realm of the State and the realm of Politics.

The principle that the forces of law and order do not challenge the authority of an elected Government dates back to the Roman Empire, and is a cornerstone of every stable democracy.

But apparently that counts for nothing when a Government is unpopular.

We don't have a government in any meaningful sense of the word. On this occasion the GRA is making clear it is on the side of democratic principles. It is no wonder the Minister was not able to answer for himself or his colleagues.

Truth will out.

[Raketemensch]

Were those Guards following orders based on legislation enacted by a parliament composed of representatives elected in free and open elections?

The idea that democracy can only come in the ballot box ever 5 years presumes that the political selection system operating here in Ireland at the moment is the perfect and final form of democracy. In fact the idea 'democracy' simply refers to rule by the people and there is no reason at all that systems cannot be overhauled by the will of the people outside current operating procedures.
I hate to break it to you but our PR general election system is not some God-given universal truth which delivers perfect democracy. For a start, a proper democracy requires a free and critical media which is something Ireland has never had.

[oggy]

Outburst by the GRA has opened up old wounds for me. I would love to address the Conference on my 16 years in the retail business when I suffered 21 armed robberies and literally hundreds of other crimes. I would like to ask them why there was never a single conviction in the courts for the horrendous crimes against my business. I would like to ask them why when I challenged the Gardai they admitted that 12 of the armed robberies were never even recorded. I would like to ask them was my experience a sample of "corruption" or "sabotage" or just bad luck that each crime happened when the Gardai were understaffed or a moments when they were unhappy with their pay levels.
I would like to ask them do they agree with me when I say Garda in the force when all these crimes occured should refund their pay and cancel their pension entitlements.
Despite my horror I still believe in our Garda Siochana

[goosebump]

I hate to break it to you but our PR general election system is not some God-given universal truth which delivers perfect democracy.

It doesn't have to be. It just have to be capable of self amendment, which it is.

Change to the way in which Government is performed must never originate from outside the democratic process if the democratic process is capable of self amendment.

[Raketemensch]

Outburst by the GRA has opened up old wounds for me. I would love to address the Conference on my 16 years in the retail business when I suffered 21 armed robberies and literally hundreds of other crimes. I would like to ask them why there was never a single conviction in the courts for the horrendous crimes against my business. I would like to ask them why when I challenged the Gardai they admitted that 12 of the armed robberies were never even recorded. I would like to ask them was my experience a sample of "corruption" or "sabotage" or just bad luck that each crime happened when the Gardai were understaffed or a moments when they were unhappy with their pay levels.
I would like to ask them do they agree with me when I say Garda in the force when all these crimes occured should refund their pay and cancel their pension entitlements.
Despite my horror I still believe in our Garda Siochana

They are badly run, no doubt about it. I was burgled last year and 1 of the 2 guards that came around took notes on a tiny torn off corner of A4 with a pen I gave him. Whilst talking to them I found out that they had only 1 old PC in the station and no Internet.
It's clearly run into the ground and for that I blame the management, not the rank and file Guards. And the top management is....? Our old friends in FF.

[myksav]

Ahern is 100% right.

Its of critical importance that the Garda is apolitical.

The GRA needs to disbanded if this is what they think their role is.

The Defence Forces are not the same as nurses and teachers.

Agreed.
I heard what was published. The GRA rep entered politics.

[Raketemensch]

It doesn't have to be. It just have to be capable of self amendment, which it is.

Change to the way in which Government is performed must never originate from outside the democratic process if the democratic process is capable of self amendment.

No, the system is beyond self-amendment because being a TD is just considered a cushy well paid job, nothing more and nothing less. It is not in the interest of current TDs to change this and they do not know any better.