The point is the FG bill from 2003 apparently had the mechanisms to deal with the loophole created by the bill rushed through the house in June.Originally Posted by White Horse
The opposition do not have the attorney general's and dept of justice's vast resources to vet prospective bills.
Yet FG published a draft bill in 2006 that would possibly have created the same loophole.
Depends on what legislation the FG draft bill would have rescinded, fact is that it is McDowell who rescinded the protection by introducing things that were not necessary to deal with the consequences of the C case ruling.The point is the FG bill from 2003 apparently had the mechanisms to deal with the loophole created by the bill rushed through the house in June.The opposition do not have the attorney general's and dept of justice's vast resources to vet prospective bills.
Yet FG published a draft bill in 2006 that would possibly have created the same loophole.
Dan Sullivan. I was back but we still couldn't all have a vote.
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Lets look at other areas of FG policy on Justice over the last 3 years or so:
FG Bill on Child-grooming
Shelved by the Government for 2 years, then adopted IN FULL this week
Home Defence
Fine Gael introduced a Bill on this last June, which was denounced by McDowell as unnecessary, saying: "In the circumstances, it is my view that the law as it currently stands is sufficient and has served us well."
By November, however, he declared his intention to change the law in this area (with the "Morrissey Bill") and described the legislation currently in force as "flawed" and the fault of "the last rainbow government"....who "changed it to say that an occupier had an obligation to retreat if he had the opportunity"
Bail Reform:
In May of last year he denounced as nonsense the assertions of Enda Kenny on Bail (5,000 crimes in 2 years committed by people on bail; judges giving irregular rulings etc.)
By December, McDowell was in COMPLETE agreement with Enda Kenny, and was using the Bail issue to launch publicity-seeking attacks on the judiciary.
Electronic Tagging:
Enda Kenny proposed the electronic tagging of people released on Bail last May.
At first: McDowell denounced the idea as mad, saying that it would be a massive waste of Garda time.
Then: He stated (incorrectly!) that there was already a provision to do this in the Criminal Justice Act 2006.
The multiple contradictions in both of these stances stunned McDowell, and his PD hacks and handlers, into silence.
Sentencing:
Enda Kenny has said for many years that there is something amiss in the system of sentencing. He said that there were irregularities, and that Judges ought to explain themselves when they deviate from recommended sentencing guidelines. McDowell denounced his comments, and others said that they posed a threat to the separation of the Legislative and Judicial arms of Government.
A few short months later, McDowell was in full agreement with Enda and was launching personalised attacks on members of the Judiciary.
And on the subject of the Rainbow's record on crime:
- YES there was no significant prison-building during the Rainbow
- YES Garda numbers did not increase significantly....
But: CRIME WAS FALLING AT A RATE OF 11% WHEN THE RAINBOW WAS IN OFFICE!
Now, with crime (particularly violent crime) rising sharply, this goon has some neck to criticise the record of previous Governments
In the last 2 years, McDowell has rubbished most of FG's Justice policy.......only to later adopt it.
Anyone want to bet how long it will be before he agrees totally with the FG position on the Remission of sentences?
"The IRA Army Council have a history of telling the truth. If they say they didn't do it, then I believe them" - Bertie Ahern, speaking after the murder of Det. Garda Jerry McCabe
KK I respect you position but Enda Kenny stated on Dail record "I especially welcome the provisions restoring the protection of young people from sexual predators"...Depends on what legislation the FG draft bill would have rescinded, fact is that it is McDowell who rescinded the protection by introducing things that were not necessary to deal with the consequences of the C case ruling.The point is the FG bill from 2003 apparently had the mechanisms to deal with the loophole created by the bill rushed through the house in June.The opposition do not have the attorney general's and dept of justice's vast resources to vet prospective bills.
Yet FG published a draft bill in 2006 that would possibly have created the same loophole.
The question was the alternative Taoiseach not well enough informed to see the potential loophole that could be created when it seems people in his party had the knowledge and skills to draft a bill that had provision used by McDowell to close the loophole this week?
....I should re read that but havent time
Does Enda Kenny present himself as a barrister or a solicitor? We do not vote for Taoiseach with these skills in mind.KK I respect you position but Enda Kenny stated on Dail record "I especially welcome the provisions restoring the protection of young people from sexual predators"...Depends on what legislation the FG draft bill would have rescinded, fact is that it is McDowell who rescinded the protection by introducing things that were not necessary to deal with the consequences of the C case ruling.The point is the FG bill from 2003 apparently had the mechanisms to deal with the loophole created by the bill rushed through the house in June.The opposition do not have the attorney general's and dept of justice's vast resources to vet prospective bills.
Yet FG published a draft bill in 2006 that would possibly have created the same loophole.
The question was the alternative Taoiseach not well enough informed to see the potential loophole that could be created when it seems people in his party had the knowledge and skills to draft a bill that had provision used by McDowell to close the loophole this week?
....I should re read that but havent time
We want people with vision. Kenny has it, McDowell doesn't.
That really is a pathetic suggestion by you - if that's the best FF can come up with, this election should be fun.
(As for the substantive issue in this thread, expect McDowell to be in full agreement with the FG proposals within a few weeks.....)
"Elite - a small superior group; esp one that has a power out of proportion to its size." (Oxford English Dictionary)
The majority cannot therefore be the elite.
West, you do remember that the opposition had 25 minutes to read the legislation before it was presented to the Dail by McDowell? Frankly, no one had time to read it bar the minister who had time to work out what boys should be able to do but girls not to.KK I respect you position but Enda Kenny stated on Dail record "I especially welcome the provisions restoring the protection of young people from sexual predators"...Depends on what legislation the FG draft bill would have rescinded, fact is that it is McDowell who rescinded the protection by introducing things that were not necessary to deal with the consequences of the C case ruling.The point is the FG bill from 2003 apparently had the mechanisms to deal with the loophole created by the bill rushed through the house in June.The opposition do not have the attorney general's and dept of justice's vast resources to vet prospective bills.
Yet FG published a draft bill in 2006 that would possibly have created the same loophole.
The question was the alternative Taoiseach not well enough informed to see the potential loophole that could be created when it seems people in his party had the knowledge and skills to draft a bill that had provision used by McDowell to close the loophole this week?
....I should re read that but havent time
Dan Sullivan. I was back but we still couldn't all have a vote.
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Why does McDowell always shy away from his own record on prisons?
- He closed Spike Island
- Closed the Curragh
- Closed Shanganagh
- Closed one wing of Mountjoy
How's that for a prison policy?
"The IRA Army Council have a history of telling the truth. If they say they didn't do it, then I believe them" - Bertie Ahern, speaking after the murder of Det. Garda Jerry McCabe
Roll away HBAP. I never said it was your fault. I was just wondering why the opposition who themselves prepared a draft bill to address the problem didnt cop it?
That really is a pathetic suggestion by you - if that's the best FF can come up with, this election should be fun.
(As for the substantive issue in this thread, expect McDowell to be in full agreement with the FG proposals within a few weeks.....)
[quote=KingKane]West, you do remember that the opposition had 25 minutes to read the legislation before it was presented to the Dail by McDowell? Frankly, no one had time to read it bar the minister who had time to work out what boys should be able to do but girls not to.[/quote:1px7dbk0]KK I respect you position but Enda Kenny stated on Dail record "I especially welcome the provisions restoring the protection of young people from sexual predators"...Depends on what legislation the FG draft bill would have rescinded, fact is that it is McDowell who rescinded the protection by introducing things that were not necessary to deal with the consequences of the C case ruling.The point is the FG bill from 2003 apparently had the mechanisms to deal with the loophole created by the bill rushed through the house in June.The opposition do not have the attorney general's and dept of justice's vast resources to vet prospective bills.
Yet FG published a draft bill in 2006 that would possibly have created the same loophole.
The question was the alternative Taoiseach not well enough informed to see the potential loophole that could be created when it seems people in his party had the knowledge and skills to draft a bill that had provision used by McDowell to close the loophole this week?
....I should re read that but havent time
I accept that arugement in relation to McDowells bill. I am not about to defend it's shortcomings.
What I was enquiring about was why FG's drafted bill which Kenny remarked was "broadly in line with the terms of the draft Fine Gael Bill"?
By the way, If the opposition had only 25 minutes to read the bill then I commend Enda Kenny for being able to make the statement he made above.
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