Legalisation of Cannabis

[Gladstone]

I accept the evidence linking cannabis smoking with respiratory illness, but, what alot of these reports do not take into account is that the majority of cannabis smokers put both cannabis and tobacco into their 'joints'. So if a cannabis smoker is also a cigarette smoker then they are obviously going to be at a higher risk of respiratory illness.

As for the mental illness issues, I have spoken in depth with many psychologists and pharmapsychologists (will studying psychology in college) about the realation bewteen cannabis use and mental issues. Many agree that it is self medication which accounts for large portions of the patients which these studies take into account. Also there is new research which says it contains "concrete" evidence that schizophrenia is caused by a biological predisposition. (see link)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A96E948260

I do not argue with any of the studies which you cite, but, there is the exact same, if not more, of an illness risk from alcohol and cigarettes. Lung cancer, liver cancer, throat cancer, liver and kidney failure to name only the most obvious.
The most shocking thing is that I can walk down to the local shops buy myself cigarettes & alcohol and get the ball rolling on the above illnesses.

I am not saying that there are no downsides to cannabis smoking but nobody can deny that there are just as many, even more, against drink.
It is easy to quote the studies putting down cannabis, but there is also evidence to suggest that cannabis can be extremely effective as a medicine for various conditions/symptoms, e.g: Nausea from chemotherapy, pain from cancers, pain from arthritis, relief from AIDS related symptoms.
http://www.cmaj.ca/cgi/reprint/162/12/1685.pdf

I know that legalising cannabis to the general population will not have a profound effect on the ailments listed above but I would like to see one medicinal benefit from alcohol or tobacco?
The reason people think of cannabis as such a 'bad' drug is because of the stigma attached to anything illegal. If alcohol and tobacco were illegal people would hold the exact same views about them, maybe even stronger views seeing as they are more harmful.

As I have said before, its easy to pull out studies on the harmful effects, but, its just as easy to do it for numerous legal drugs.

That schizophrenia may well have a genetic basis is beside the point.

The explanation most accepted is that cannabis triggers the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in predisposed people and also exacerbates the symptoms generally

British Medical Journal "Cannabis and mental health"

[quote:2ai63ncv] A longer follow up and reanalysis of this cohort published in this issue (p 1199) confirms the earlier findings and clarifies that cannabis, and not other drugs, is associated with later schizophrenia and that this is not explained by prodromal symptoms.

In a similar vein, a three year follow up of a Dutch cohort of 4045 people free of psychosis and 59 with a baseline diagnosis of psychotic disorder showed a strong association between use of cannabis and psychosis.

Length of exposure to use of cannabis predicted the severity of the psychosis, which likewise was not explained by use of other drugs.

and as for the " it's not additive" spin:

Participants who showed psychotic symptoms at baseline and used cannabis had a worse outcome, which also implies an additive effect.

another important finding is a link with depression:

This is reflected in higher rates of anxiety or depression according to the frequency with which cannabis was used. The link is stronger for young women than young men in this cohort

these findings strengthen the argument that use of cannabis increases the risk of schizophrenia and depression, and they provide little support for the belief that the association between marijuana use and mental health problems is largely due to self medication

harmless?

The reason people think of cannabis as such a 'bad' drug is because of the stigma attached to anything illegal.

or because it is bad![/quote:2ai63ncv]

I don't doubt regular use has negative effects, but since people know that, let them make their own decisions.

[sackville]

I don't doubt regular use has negative effects, but since people know that, let them make their own decisions.

not everyone on this thread seem to know that. much of this is quite recent scientific research.
in the opening post it is described as "non-toxic". there's a lot of disinformation around propagated by the "stoners"

[Gladstone]

I don't doubt regular use has negative effects, but since people know that, let them make their own decisions.

not everyone on this thread seem to know that. much of this is quite recent scientific research.

come on, everyone knows if you smoke hash regularly it makes you dopey, it's common sense.

[sackville]

come on, everyone knows if you smoke hash regularly it makes you dopey, it's common sense.

developing schizophrenia or clinial depression is not quite the same as just making you "dopey".

[Gladstone]

come on, everyone knows if you smoke hash regularly it makes you dopey, it's common sense.

developing schizophrenia or clinial depression is not quite the same as just making you "dopey".

I fail to see why that means it should be illegal tho

[A_man_about_a_dog]

That schizophrenia may well have a genetic basis is beside the point.

The explanation most accepted is that cannabis triggers the onset or relapse of schizophrenia in predisposed people and also exacerbates the symptoms generally

British Medical Journal "Cannabis and mental health"

[quote:1l0830gh] A longer follow up and reanalysis of this cohort published in this issue (p 1199) confirms the earlier findings and clarifies that cannabis, and not other drugs, is associated with later schizophrenia and that this is not explained by prodromal symptoms.

In a similar vein, a three year follow up of a Dutch cohort of 4045 people free of psychosis and 59 with a baseline diagnosis of psychotic disorder showed a strong association between use of cannabis and psychosis.

Length of exposure to use of cannabis predicted the severity of the psychosis, which likewise was not explained by use of other drugs.

and as for the " it's not additive" spin:

Participants who showed psychotic symptoms at baseline and used cannabis had a worse outcome, which also implies an additive effect.

another important finding is a link with depression:

This is reflected in higher rates of anxiety or depression according to the frequency with which cannabis was used. The link is stronger for young women than young men in this cohort

these findings strengthen the argument that use of cannabis increases the risk of schizophrenia and depression, and they provide little support for the belief that the association between marijuana use and mental health problems is largely due to self medication

harmless?

The reason people think of cannabis as such a 'bad' drug is because of the stigma attached to anything illegal.

or because it is bad![/quote:1l0830gh]

How is the fact that schizophrenia is gentically predisposed "besides the point", far from it, it is the basis of my point. You cannot tie cannabis use to something which has recently been proved to have a great deal to do with genetics. As for the legal drugs, alcohol and tobacco, why will you not talk about the even more harmful diseases and illnessses which they cause????
Face up to the fact that there is more chance of you dying a slow and painful death from drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes then is from smoking a 'joint'.

Addictive properties? I have studied pharmapsychology and one of the key things which my lecturers repeated in realation to cannabis was that there was no physical addiction, unlike caffine, nicotine or morphine. The addication you refer to in your cited links is, I assume, a psychological addiction, the same kind you can get to t.v, shopping, chocolate, etc.

You can argue all you want about the negative effects of cannabis use but as Gladstone said, let people make their own decisions. If they can choose to drink alcohol and smoke tobaccco they should be given the choice as to whether they want to smoke cannabis or not. I recommend J.S Mill "On Liberty", might make you think in a different way when it comes to personal liberty.

[sackville]

How is the fact that schizophrenia is gentically predisposed "besides the point", far from it, it is the basis of my point. You cannot tie cannabis use to something which has recently been proved to have a great deal to do with genetics.

apart form the fact that reserch strongly suggests a causation between the drug and the illness

As for the legal drugs, alcohol and tobacco, why will you not talk about the even more harmful diseases and illnessses which they cause????

perhaps because there's nobody coming on and disputing that they're harmful!

[cahillB]

I am personally of the opinion that while there is definatly a serious problem with the addition of harmful substances, i feel the solution is harsher punishment for offenders. Currently, i belive that anyone caught in possesion of less than 1/4 is generally let away scot-free as for that amount, it is assumed, is for personal consumtion.If someone is in possesion of that amount it is obvious that they have access to more and will contine to offend without any repercussions. It is an issue that requires serious reform.

[jjcarroll]

Regulate the trade in all illegal narcotics, tax them, make everyone aware of the consequences, and make the possession of non-regulated narcotics an extremely serious offence.

[A_man_about_a_dog]

As for the legal drugs, alcohol and tobacco, why will you not talk about the even more harmful diseases and illnessses which they cause????

perhaps because there's nobody coming on and disputing that they're harmful!

Thank you, you've pretty much made my argument for me. You have admitted that they are harmful, so, I dont see why should drugs like alcohol and tobacco should be legal????

They harm you in much more serious ways than cannabis does. Just because something is illegal does not mean that it is in anyway more harmful than legal substances. The reason for why it is illegal in most of the western world is beacuse of the fact that in the 1920's some 'medical professionals' (used very lightly) thought that cannabis was a direct relation of the opiod family, and they therefore thought it caused dementia like that of a heroin user, when in fact it is no relation nor does it have any similar effects to heroin.
Legislation with regard to cannabis is out of date, based on poor/inaccurate information and needs to be looked at seriously.

As for cahilB's comment; a 1/4oz of cannabis is such a minute amount when you consider how much is being smuggled into this country on a weekly basis. The problem is not with somebody having a 1/4, the problem is the importation by the criminals. If the cannabis trade in this country was legalised and regulated by the government/customs/gardaí it would be much better for everyone concerned. Tax revenue, new business opportunities, economic benefits and probably social benefits too. Legalisation is the way forward not harsher sentencing for the average cannabis smoker, that is a ridiculous idea. That would in no way benefit anybody. Garda resources would be wasted even further than they already are being.