"The Lost Revolution: A History of the OIRA and Workers Party"

[SevenStars]

There are a lot of claims that if the GFA hadn't been passed there would have been some kind of sectarian bloodbath. Is this in any way credible ? What is the evidence. On the Provisionals side, all they would have needed to do is have a cease fire.

There is something to it in that Loyalist violence escalated seriously in the early and mid 90s. The Provos by seeking an alliance with sections of the southern ruling class ultimately ended up isolating themselves and the IRSP stand of trying to link the national liberation struggle in the 6 counties to the wider social struggle throughout the country never got off the ground for various reasons (repression, the killing off of their leaders, etc).

[cactusflower]

Many? The numbers are tiny; statistically insignificant, even today. The Life and Times Study I think it is consistently shows 1% of Catholics voting DUP and 0% of protestants voting for PSF.

The CPI was opposed to provo violence throughout the troubles. Why the few who did support the provos did so I don't know. I suspect from a misplaced and immature leftism in most cases.

Why would a northern "protestant" member of the working class vote for a sectarian organisation ?

[cactusflower]

There is something to it in that Loyalist violence escalated seriously in the early and mid 90s. The Provos by seeking an alliance with sections of the southern ruling class ultimately ended up isolating themselves and the IRSP stand of trying to link the national liberation struggle in the 6 counties to the wider social struggle throughout the country never got off the ground for various reasons (repression, the killing off of their leaders, etc).

It wasn't easy. We also have to assume that sectarianism was fostered and stoked at every step of the way and using every means conceivable by the British.

[JollyRedGiant]

I have kept out of this thread because most of the stuff here is way off the mark in terms of actual events and politics - and I doubt if anyone posting on the thread has actaully read the book about the stickies

But I really have to take cactus up on this one -

While there is plenty we don't agree with I have only just found out that the Socialist Party and Workers Party voted for the GFA and the WSM abstained and am finding it hard to credit. The idea that it was going to bring permanent peace and an end to sectarianism is unbelievable.

cactus - you read my response to your comments about the GFA on the other thread where we were discussing it. It is an absolute disgrace for you to then claim here that the Socialist Party called for a yes for the GFA on the basis "that it was going to bring permanent peace and an end to sectarianism" when it has been clearly demonstrated to you that the opposite was actually the case.

I have no problem defending any position the Socialist Party has taken in the past in relation to the situation in the North - but I do not take kindly to someone deliberately distorting the position of the Socialist Party in order to take a snide political swipe at the organisation.

I would appreciate a retraction of these comments - it is the least you should do.

[SevenStars]

I have no problem defending any position the Socialist Party has taken in the past in relation to the situation in the North - but I do not take kindly to someone deliberately distorting the position of the Socialist Party in order to take a snide political swipe at the organisation.
.

Does that mean you will defend any SP positition regardless of whether you privately agree with it or not? If thats true than surely that is "Stalinism" at its worse, one of the attitudes that made it so easy for people to begin to restore capitalism after comrade Stalin's death.

By the way does the SP consider itself THE Vanguard Party?

[Garibaldy]

I have kept out of this thread because most of the stuff here is way off the mark in terms of actual events and politics - and I doubt if anyone posting on the thread has actaully read the book about the stickies

The thing I like about you JRG is that you have such a high opinion of everyone else. Now why would someone like me have read the book? Besides, it's hardly like I put up a 1200 word response to it about two days after it came out. Have you read the book?

[JollyRedGiant]

Does that mean you will defend any SP positition regardless of whether you privately agree with it or not?

Yes - the Socialist Party is a democratic centralist party - any disagreements I have with the official party position I raise within the party structures (as I have done on numerous occasions in the past). If the majority of the party adopt a different position I will defend it in pubic (or if I have a fundemental disagreement with it I will keep my mouth shut). Those are the rules - if I wasn't willing to abide by them I would leave.

By the way does the SP consider itself THE Vanguard Party?

No member of the Socialist Party would be so arrogant to make such a claim. Personally I don't care who the 'vanguard' party is as long as one is built. I joined the Socialist Party because I felt it offered the best potential to build a revolutionary party.

Besides, it's hardly like I put up a 1200 word response to it about two days after it came out.

My apologies - I should have qualified it by saying 'most' -

Have you read the book?

No - but I will in time - but that does not prohibit me from recognising some of the nonsense that has been posted on this thread.

[SevenStars]

The thing I like about you JRG is that you have such a high opinion of everyone else. Now why would someone like me have read the book? Besides, it's hardly like I put up a 1200 word response to it about two days after it came out. Have you read the book?

Well what you are saying probably goes against what the SP says about the WP in their educational classes.

However I would like to know whether the WP considers itself the Vanguard Party and do its members have to argue for parts of its platform publically that privately they disagree with? Were there anti-revisionists in the WP? What was the party's line on comrade Stalin?

[eoghanacht]

It wasn't easy. We also have to assume that sectarianism was fostered and stoked at every step of the way and using every means conceivable by the British.

why assume, it's fact, they played the orange card at every oppertunity

[Garibaldy]

Yes - the Socialist Party is a democratic centralist party - any disagreements I have with the official party position I raise within the party structures (as I have done on numerous occasions in the past). If the majority of the party adopt a different position I will defend it in pubic (or if I have a fundemental disagreement with it I will keep my mouth shut). Those are the rules - if I wasn't willing to abide by them I would leave.


No member of the Socialist Party would be so arrogant to make such a claim. Personally I don't care who the 'vanguard' party is as long as one is built. I joined the Socialist Party because I felt it offered the best potential to build a revolutionary party.


My apologies - I should have qualified it by saying 'most' -


No - but I will in time - but that does not prohibit me from recognising some of the nonsense that has been posted on this thread.

Yes the nonsense is clearly apparent