"The Lost Revolution: A History of the OIRA and Workers Party"

[Garibaldy]

The SDLP were clearly not engaged in the same sort of things that got other people labelled as fascists, so no, I imagine not.

I've already outlined what I think sectarian politics consists of. If you think the Provos are basically non-sectarian that is up to you.

I accept that the only way to unite Ireland is with the consent of the majority of the people of NI. As does anyone with any sense.

Sectarianism predates the NI state. It even predates the British state as it currently exists. It is far too simplistic to say that the British Imperialism is the root cause. Nor is it an excuse for behaving in an unprincipled and sectarian fashion.

[SevenStars]

I accept that the only way to unite Ireland is with the consent of the majority of the people of NI. As does anyone with any sense.
.

Okay, I would suggest that you actually talk to people who are either in or supporters of the various branches of the "Provo" family (Eirigi, 32 csm, RNU, PSF,etc) because I know that I am not going to be able to persuade you at all.

Do you believe that these brave Offical IRA volunteers had no sense when they tried to overthrow the Orange statelet with the gun?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmOfaYlnA0U&feature=channel_page"]YouTube - Ballad of Patricia McKay[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AumKmmsYgbA&feature=channel"]YouTube - John Pat Mullan and Hugh Heron, sung by Annie Thompson[/ame]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPLoJuAhqz4&feature=related"]YouTube - Joe McCann[/ame]

Soldiers of the people they died so they could live.

R.I.P.

[Garibaldy]

Okay, I would suggest that you actually talk to people who are either in or supporters of the various branches of the "Provo" family (Eirigi, 32 csm, RNU, PSF,etc) because I know that I am not going to be able to persuade you at all.

Do you believe that these brave Offical IRA volunteers had no sense when they tried to overthrow the Orange statelet with the gun?

YouTube - Ballad of Patricia McKay

YouTube - John Pat Mullan and Hugh Heron, sung by Annie Thompson

YouTube - Joe McCann

Soldiers of the people they died so they could live.

R.I.P.

I need only look at their actions to come to my conclusions on sectarianism. But like I say, almost all the parties in the north are sectarian in my view, not just them.

The IRA was never going to be able to overthrow the NI state. And in fact that campaign was one defined even before the ceasefire as one of defence and retaliation. Clearly there was a role for defence of communities, but it rapidly became the case that violence - even for the right reasons - was only deepening the divisions among the Irish people while having no chance of success. It had to be stopped. None of which in any way denigrates those who did what had to be done at that time. Republicans had come to the conclusion before 1969 that support had to be gained from the majority, and 1969 didn't change that.

[Ghandi]

Conor McCabe at Dublin Opion has uploaded a lot of audio from the Greaves Summer School, of a session on remembering 1969, which was addressed by Brian Hanley. There is also some of the discussion, which includes many people mentioned in the book. No-one currently from The WP though.

Dublin Opinion Blog Archive GREAVES SUMMER SCHOOL, 2009: BRIAN HANLEY AND MICK RYAN

Thomas Mac Giolla contributed to the discussion however his contribution is not listed on Conor's audio, The discussions were interesting and are part of a process of setting aside the inaccuracies that have been spun about '69. The Summer School coming on the heals of the book launch show that there is still a potential for the Republican Left, an increased debate around the 60's 70''s can only benefit WP.

There seems to be a perception that WP is something that existed in the past but with no current relevance, yet members are working away on all of the current issues facing the country. They are invoved in the fights against cuts, NAMA / TACA and Sean Garland's extradition. They are also one of the leading groups opposing LISBON and are working co-operatively and effectively in CAEUC with groups such as PSF, PBP, SWP. SP, IRSP, PM, PANA and others.

WP is still there despite all that has been thrown at it, its problem was as put by Cathal Goulding that "we were right, but we were right too early"

[Garibaldy]

Thomas Mac Giolla contributed to the discussion however his contribution is not listed on Conor's audio, The discussions were interesting and are part of a process of setting aside the inaccuracies that have been spun about '69. The Summer School coming on the heals of the book launch show that there is still a potential for the Republican Left, an increased debate around the 60's 70''s can only benefit WP.

There seems to be a perception that WP is something that existed in the past but with no current relevance, yet members are working away on all of the current issues facing the country. They are invoved in the fights against cuts, NAMA / TACA and Sean Garland's extradition. They are also one of the leading groups opposing LISBON and are working co-operatively and effectively in CAEUC with groups such as PSF, PBP, SWP. SP, IRSP, PM, PANA and others.

WP is still there despite all that has been thrown at it, its problem was as put by Cathal Goulding that "we were right, but we were right too early"

Thanks for the info Ghandi. Glad that Tomás was there.

[Republican-Socialist]

Thomas Mac Giolla contributed to the discussion however his contribution is not listed on Conor's audio, The discussions were interesting and are part of a process of setting aside the inaccuracies that have been spun about '69. The Summer School coming on the heals of the book launch show that there is still a potential for the Republican Left, an increased debate around the 60's 70''s can only benefit WP.

There seems to be a perception that WP is something that existed in the past but with no current relevance, yet members are working away on all of the current issues facing the country. They are invoved in the fights against cuts, NAMA / TACA and Sean Garland's extradition. They are also one of the leading groups opposing LISBON and are working co-operatively and effectively in CAEUC with groups such as PSF, PBP, SWP. SP, IRSP, PM, PANA and others.

WP is still there despite all that has been thrown at it, its problem was as put by Cathal Goulding that "we were right, but we were right too early"

No, Costello was right, and he was a threat to the bureaucracy and reformism of the sticky leadership.

[brasco]

Thanks for the info Ghandi. Glad that Tomás was there.

Again I ask you....


1. Are you telling us that the OIRA the armed wing of the workers party doesn`t exist?

2. Are you saying the OIRA doesn`t control 4 or 5 drinking dens in West Belfast, where drugs are openly peddled?

3. Are you saying that the sticks don`t exhort and rob?


4. Are you now saying that the stickies aren`t shooting youngsters in Belfast?
Henry the fantasist.


So the stickie apologist still refuses to answer...

[ManOfReason]

Again I ask you....


1. Are you telling us that the OIRA the armed wing of the workers party doesn`t exist?

2. Are you saying the OIRA doesn`t control 4 or 5 drinking dens in West Belfast, where drugs are openly peddled?

3. Are you saying that the sticks don`t exhort and rob?


4. Are you now saying that the stickies aren`t shooting youngsters in Belfast?
Henry the fantasist.


So the stickie apologist still refuses to answer...

If you have the evidence show it - otherwise stop spaming the tread with the same cut and paste questions.

[thepale]

Just reading this thread and I was surprised at the comments about Finglas. Even the dogs in the street know that HF is knee deep in drug money. His links to the main dealers goes back years. He was the provos bag man for the drug dealers. As for the sticks in Finglas, there are family members involved but I doubt if its organised by the party. Now, lets get back to the debate about the book. Does it give a good review of the stickies or does it show them up. My opinion, its shows their potential or more importantly, the potential for a strong left movement but it also highlights the failings and corruption of the leadership cadre. Sad to think that the sticks ended up as an anti-provo reactionary force and people like O'Cionnaith in the 'mun were fighting against the community anti-drug movement just because some provos were involved. Same with other protests, the sticks would not appear if the provos were around, much like RSF still act today. As for Steensons comment that the sticks are still active, I would remind you of your own derisory vote and to be honest, if they have you on board, they must be really desperate. The sticks are like RSF, they will die out with the ageing membership. A full circle.

[cactusflower]

I don't get the drug dealing thing. Not a whole lot of national liberation going on getting your young people stoned.