"The Lost Revolution: A History of the OIRA and Workers Party"

[cactusflower]

I think time has shown that The WP arguments were correct, and that the faction that created DL was utterly cynical and opportunist in its rhetoric and its methods, and was looking both to get into power and dump the north as soon as possible. I might be misremembering, but I think I heard one of the ways they did this was to ensure that the north financed itself, rather than the money from the Dáil and Europe being used there as well.

I suspect De Rossa's public opposition was as much about negotiating a position for himself after the merger as anything else. It was to some extent driven by those underneath him who could look forward to leadership eventually, while he had too much baggage.

Is there a link anywhere here to the WP arguments ? The document here is one of the most nauseating collections of weasel words I've ever had the misfortune to read.

[cactusflower]

The wiki link for Proinsias de Rossa is useful background

Proinsias De Rossa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Garibaldy]

Is there a link anywhere here to the WP arguments ? The document here is one of the most nauseating collections of weasel words I've ever had the misfortune to read.

The piece from John Lowry here

The Left Archive: Addendum to the Workers’ Party 1991 Debate from ‘Making Sense’ The Cedar Lounge Revolution

deals with some of the arguments that were being raised around 1991.

So does the document linked here, which dates from about a year after the split

The Left Archive: “The Future is Socialism” from the Workers’ Party post-split 1993 The Cedar Lounge Revolution

I can;t remember if I mentioned this already, but The WP published Patterns of Betray: The Flight from Socialism in 1992, which collected the writings of both sides of the DL split. It can still be got from The WP office. It will be in the Cedar Lounge Revolution Left Archive at some point soonish I hope.

[ON THE ONE ROAD]

De Rossa was supposed to build on Mac Giolla's legacy, not destroy it; and he had given decades to the Party, so for him to do it was certainly more of a shock than the likes of Rabitte and Gilmore, although I think not everyone was as surprised. The loss of all those people north and south, and their energy, was a great loss, and meant that FF and its speculating cohorts went virtually unchallenged during the 1990s and after. In the north too. To be honest, I think that for quite a few people, especially in the north, going DL was a way of retiring after decades of hard work for little reward, rather than just admitting that they were tired, and wanted to take a back seat.

who knows. though FF held there own while two tribunals where in swing. iam not a believer in the people in the last decade being nieve or ignorant, believe they made a concious decision to say so what. i disagree with that choice, think in some ways it was greedy, selfserveing, but believe they coniously made it and the best way to move away from that is accept were there in the first place and start from there. but again who knows maybe your right, maybe a united WP could have made a difference.

what iam disapointed about most in everything you told me tonight in 26 country labour ditching DL north it could have been interesting. though i take your point that DL norths lack of political activity of there own bat may be an indicator but reading the link to the blog and what i personly know suspect the shortedness is coming from down here.

any way interesting talking to you. follow your posts over on ceader. always a good read.

[Garibaldy]

who knows. though FF held there own while two tribunals where in swing. iam not a believer in the people in the last decade being nieve or ignorant, believe they made a concious decision to say so what. i disagree with that choice, think in some ways it was greedy, selfserveing, but believe they coniously made it and the best way to move away from that is accept were there in the first place and start from there. but again who knows maybe your right, maybe a united WP could have made a difference.

what iam disapointed about most in everything you told me tonight in 26 country labour ditching DL north it could have been interesting. though i take your point that DL norths lack of political activity of there own bat may be an indicator but reading the link to the blog and what i personly know suspect the shortedness is coming from down here.

any way interesting talking to you. follow your posts over on ceader. always a good read.

I'd agree with you entirely that people knew what they were getting to a large extent over the last decade. I do feel though that a united WP in the mid-1990s when the scandals that the Irish People and the TDs had been exposing came to a head would have provided a much clearer class critique and limited the scope for action of the right in a way that did not happen. There was a lot of fear of The WP in FF and the Labour Party as the 1990s began, and that would only have increased.

Good to chat to you too. Thanks for the kind words about my contributions to CLR. I'm lucky WBS gives me the opportunity to ride on his coat-tails.

[cactusflower]

Interesting things said about splits and the appearance of randomness in the way that some people go with one or another faction.

From my observation, the splitters are running with the ball: even if they are a minority, they have the initiative and a certain amount of control of the situation. They have usually been planning well in advance and have a strategy in place. The shock, confusion and disorientation to those who remain can be debilitating. Some people drop out because of general distaste for the dirtiness of the split. Not good.

[Garibaldy]

Interesting things said about splits and the appearance of randomness in the way that some people go with one or another faction.

From my observation, the splitters are running with the ball: even if they are a minority, they have the initiative and a certain amount of control of the situation. They have usually been planning well in advance and have a strategy in place. The shock, confusion and disorientation to those who remain can be debilitating. Some people drop out because of general distaste for the dirtiness of the split. Not good.

That's a fairly accurate account of what happened with a good number of people who just dropped out. The DL faction certainly was plotting well in advance too. The lies about their intentions certainly caused confusion.

[PetevonPete]

Lost Revolution launch covered here...

Audio from the launch of 'The Lost Revolution' - Indymedia Ireland

[cactusflower]

That's a fairly accurate account of what happened with a good number of people who just dropped out. The DL faction certainly was plotting well in advance too. The lies about their intentions certainly caused confusion.

I assumed that the DL faction were the splitters. Were they not?

[Garibaldy]

They were indeed. I was trying to confirm your point.