"The Lost Revolution: A History of the OIRA and Workers Party"

[Barry]

As someone who actually lives in West Belfast unlike yourself, I am in a better position to offer an opinion on the stickies.

I`ve met those beaten and threatened by this group, have you? As to the shooting, I have no idea what you are referring too, maybe you can enlighten us, or do you only answer questions which don`t detract from the fantasy stickie nirvana in which you exist?

Maybe you can answer the following simple questions?

1. Are you telling us that the OIRA the armed wing of the workers party doesn`t exist?

2. Are you saying the OIRA doesn`t control 4 or 5 drinking dens in West Belfast, where drugs are openly peddled?

3. Are you saying that the sticks don`t exhort and rob?


4. Are you now saying that the stickies aren`t shooting youngsters in Belfast?

5. Have you ever been to belfast or maybe the Lagan drinking den!!!!!!

Everyone with any sense, from the PSNI, SDLP to the Catholic church (who still provide mediators for the sticks when they come into conflict with the extremists of the CIRA/RIRA) knows that the stickies or workers party still has an armed wing, a group up to its neck in criminality and drug dealing.


But then I am a fantasist, a dreamer, someone without the ability to post the truth, unlike yourself.

The Official IRA are not the military wing of the workers Party, and havnt been for some time. They split off from the workers party and formed the "Official Republican Movement" in the 90's. So what you are referring to there has nothing to do with the workers party.

[Barry]

the OIRA cant even admit to its own existence -that was covered in the Pat Kenny interview. if an OIRA guy was caught engaging in criminal activity, he would never admit to OIRA membership and serve his time as a common criminal.

unlike the PIRA, OIRA guys would never seek "political prisoner" status.

in short, these guys went unbelievably underground

When was this Pat Kenny interview?

I cant seem to find it in the archives... RTÉ - Today with Pat Kenny

[Garibaldy]

As someone who actually lives in West Belfast unlike yourself, I am in a better position to offer an opinion on the stickies.

I`ve met those beaten and threatened by this group, have you? As to the shooting, I have no idea what you are referring too, maybe you can enlighten us, or do you only answer questions which don`t detract from the fantasy stickie nirvana in which you exist?

Maybe you can answer the following simple questions?

1. Are you telling us that the OIRA the armed wing of the workers party doesn`t exist?

2. Are you saying the OIRA doesn`t control 4 or 5 drinking dens in West Belfast, where drugs are openly peddled?

3. Are you saying that the sticks don`t exhort and rob?


4. Are you now saying that the stickies aren`t shooting youngsters in Belfast?

5. Have you ever been to belfast or maybe the Lagan drinking den!!!!!!

Everyone with any sense, from the PSNI, SDLP to the Catholic church (who still provide mediators for the sticks when they come into conflict with the extremists of the CIRA/RIRA) knows that the stickies or workers party still has an armed wing, a group up to its neck in criminality and drug dealing.


But then I am a fantasist, a dreamer, someone without the ability to post the truth, unlike yourself.

I have a policy of not engaging with Brasco due to his/her irrationality and lies. Brasco thinks that by saying that they live in the area that they gain credibility. What instead happens is that each time their credibility is only undermined further.

I will respond to some of these points only because people attempt to create some sort of mystique about The WP that is nonsensical. The so-called drinking dens are perfectly legal social clubs frequented by people many but not all of whom support The WP. Not much different in some respects to the Conservative and Labour clubs in Britain, except they are not owned by The WP. The Lagan Social Club has been closed for some time now - the space was given over for social housing. Our expert seems not to know this..

There are no drugs being sold in these clubs. Walk into one and you can see that. This is a vile slander that has been rebutted on another thread by Jolly Red Giant - someone who is far from friendly to The WP. Yet Brasco repeats it due to the irrational hatred discussed earlier. Same with the shooting. All the so-called punishment shootings in Belfast recently have been claimed as the work of the dissidents, in interviews with Suzanne Breen and others.

Brasco thinks that by claiming to be from west Belfast people will believe it. Yet as we can see from even this short response, Brasco is peddling a series of lies and half-truths, to create a poisonous concotion that bears no relation to the truth. It would be more honest just to consistently type I hate The WP ad infinitum.

[netron]

When was this Pat Kenny interview?

I cant seem to find it in the archives... RTÉ - Today with Pat Kenny

it was on this morning, so it should be on the archives later today maybe.

very fascinating, even though Kenny seemed to be WAAAAY out of his depth (considering the subject matter)

[Garibaldy]

When was this Pat Kenny interview?

I cant seem to find it in the archives... RTÉ - Today with Pat Kenny

Barry,

The interview was today. I think it should be online tomorrow.

[Garibaldy]

i dont know where you are getting that idea from - the DL split was all about the OIRA - it was proposed as an amendment to the WP constitution - to break all OIRA ties. in 1992.

they didnt get the vote and De Rossa & others resigned and went on to form DL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Left_(Ireland)

Netron,

The DL split was pure and simply about politics. A faction within the Party led by the TDs wanted to move away from revolutionary socialism, and to embrace the opportunity to sit in government. The WP said at the time that their real aim was to join the Labour Party, and that they were lying to WP members and those who went with them about that fact. History has borne this out.

There had been people within the Party moving rightwards, and there had been problems controlling some TDs, before the fall of the socialist states. Their collapse hastened that progress, and meant that instead of some TDs being forced to leave if they wanted to pursue their ambitions, they were able to split the party in the confusion of this time. They used allegations in the media to cover what was in reality a flight from socialism.

The WP published a collection of documents from both sides called Patterns of Betrayal. It can still be got from The WP.

[brasco]

I have a policy of not engaging with Brasco due to his/her irrationality and lies. Brasco thinks that by saying that they live in the area that they gain credibility. What instead happens is that each time their credibility is only undermined further.

I will respond to some of these points only because people attempt to create some sort of mystique about The WP that is nonsensical. The so-called drinking dens are perfectly legal social clubs frequented by people many but not all of whom support The WP. Not much different in some respects to the Conservative and Labour clubs in Britain, except they are not owned by The WP. The Lagan Social Club has been closed for some time now - the space was given over for social housing. Our expert seems not to know this..

There are no drugs being sold in these clubs. Walk into one and you can see that. This is a vile slander that has been rebutted on another thread by Jolly Red Giant - someone who is far from friendly to The WP. Yet Brasco repeats it due to the irrational hatred discussed earlier. Same with the shooting. All the so-called punishment shootings in Belfast recently have been claimed as the work of the dissidents, in interviews with Suzanne Breen and others.

Brasco thinks that by claiming to be from west Belfast people will believe it. Yet as we can see from even this short response, Brasco is peddling a series of lies and half-truths, to create a poisonous concotion that bears no relation to the truth. It would be more honest just to consistently type I hate The WP ad infinitum.

1. I mentioned the Lagan on purpose, the den of journalists...

2. These clubs are not open to all, if you lived in these areas (anymore, the markets doesn`t count...) you would be aware of the fact that members of ALL other political groups, SDLP, PSF and any other REAL socialist group are now allowed in or welcome in these dens...

3. The stickies shot a lad in west Belfast 6 mths ago, this WASN`T the work off or claimed by Republican extremists.

4. Just the following questions you continue to refuse to answer regardless of how many times you are asked...

1. Are you telling us that the OIRA the armed wing of the workers party doesn`t exist?

2. Are you saying the OIRA doesn`t control 4 or 5 drinking dens in West Belfast, where drugs are openly peddled?

3. Are you saying that the sticks don`t exhort and rob?


4. Are you now saying that the stickies aren`t shooting youngsters in Belfast?

Finally why is it when these questions are asked you revert to personal abuse, is this the new policy of the stickies, innuendo, misdirection and plain attacks!!!!

Finally what about the WORKERS PARTY members caught with guns after the DL split?

You stickie journo`s are all the same....

From Henry the fantasist.

Bye the way, its great you listen only to those who agree with your "propaganda" on the OIRA!

[brasco]

The Official IRA are not the military wing of the workers Party, and havnt been for some time. They split off from the workers party and formed the "Official Republican Movement" in the 90's. So what you are referring to there has nothing to do with the workers party.

The ORM left without any guns to follow a purely political path, esrtwise there would have been another bloodbath....

The OIRA/workers party kept their guns....

[brasco]

Netron,

The DL split was pure and simply about politics. A faction within the Party led by the TDs wanted to move away from revolutionary socialism, and to embrace the opportunity to sit in government. The WP said at the time that their real aim was to join the Labour Party, and that they were lying to WP members and those who went with them about that fact. History has borne this out.

There had been people within the Party moving rightwards, and there had been problems controlling some TDs, before the fall of the socialist states. Their collapse hastened that progress, and meant that instead of some TDs being forced to leave if they wanted to pursue their ambitions, they were able to split the party in the confusion of this time. They used allegations in the media to cover what was in reality a flight from socialism.

The WP published a collection of documents from both sides called Patterns of Betrayal. It can still be got from The WP.

Who are you trying to kid.....

The split was solely about the existence of the OIRA and the primacy of democracy over covert military influence and direction...

What do you expect the OIRA/WORKERS party to say!!!! Off course they wouldn`t say it was about their armed wing....

but I`m glad that you will believe everything your Party says!

Henry the fantasist.

[scrawledincrayon]

As for no-one claiming FF deliberately caused split that is exactly what Officials claimed. It is ridiculous to think that the state was terrified of a socialist revolution led by Anthony Couglan and Roy Johnston! .

As strange as it may seem at this remove, the book quotes from two different cabinet memos in 1969 (pre-August) dealing with the IRA and the desirability of causing a left/right split within it. The memos are very clear that the reason why this was desirable was to discredit "the communist element" and put an end to republican social agitation in the South.

It may seem obvious to us now that the likes of Johnston weren't going to lead a social revolution, but it is a fact, backed by the hard evidence of the memos, that the Irish government took the socialist turn of the IRA very seriously and were very concerned about it. You might think that they were fools to be so concerned, but we now know that they were.