The existence of women in the loyalist paramilitaries?

[brenners']

I was doing some research for a friend of mine on women in Irish politics, he is writing a University paper on it, and he asked me to provide a bit of source material on female republicans. It was a very easy process to dig out some decent stuff, however, I wanted to try and get a balance by also providing some stuff on the role of women in Loyalisim, the six counties is Ireland after all.
I have looked for quite a while now, and as hard as I try it would appear that no women played a significant role in Loyalist paramilitary groups at all, there does not seem to have been any women prisoners, there is no record of women members being shot, I can see no instances of female spokespersons.
I am just wondering if people could hazard a guess why this is the case, and why in republicanism there is plenty of examples of female participation, but none on the unionist side? Why are these organisations so male dominated? Thanks folks.

[cain1798]

I am just wondering if people could hazard a guess why this is the case, and why in republicanism there is plenty of examples of female participation, but none on the unionist side? Why are these organisations so male dominated? Thanks folks.

Firstly, there were female members of the UVF and UDA. You're right in that they were very, very, very rare. Off-hand I can only think of two. Johnny Adair's wife was a member of the UDA and took part in UDA firing parties and other operations. There was a female UVF member in Belfast during the 80s I can remember reading about somewhere.

Secondly, the ideology and nature of the organisations would mitigate against it. The IRA consciously modelled itself as a revolutionary, socialist, national liberation movement. Consequently, it fell into the perception of seeing women as equal participants in struggle, as supporting the liberation of women and so on. National liberation movements in Africa, Europe and Latin America accepted women in their ranks.

We shouldn't exagerrate either. While there were hundreds of female IRA volunteers over the last thirty years they never made up anything but a minority. The IRA was a male dominated organisation, but unlike Loyalism encouraged and attracted female militants. As I write this Maireád Farrell's photograph is right in front of me, but there were many more less high profile.

Loyalism on the other hand is essentially a reactionary ideology, quasi-fascist in nature with a focus on opposing change, maintaining the status quo and thus hardly a place where culturally women would be seen as part of their struggle. Bear in mind too that Loyalist paramilitarism never had the level of support in its community that the IRA did, and that women who might have wanted to take up arms against the IRA could, and did, join the RIR or the RUC where they could be respected members of their communities.

[Sidewinder]

Dawn Purvis too, current PUP/UVF member of the policing board.

So they do exist, they're just very rare. It's a cultural thing, Unionism has always been much, much more patriarchal (or, if you prefer, macho) than Republicanism. Look at the OO for example, women can't be members but there's a women's auxiliary organisation which most definitely plays the "tea and sandwiches" role.

There are signs though that this is beginning to change significantly. IIRC in the last Assembly election the DUP of all people actually had the best record for the proportion of female candidates.

I guess even Fortress Ulcer can't hold back the tides of progress forever

[cain1798]

Dawn Purvis too, current PUP/UVF member of the policing board.

Unless I am very much mistaken I don't think Purvis was ever a member of the UVF.

[revereie]

Firstly, there were female members of the UVF and UDA. You're right in that they were very, very, very rare. Off-hand I can only think of two. Johnny Adair's wife was a member of the UDA and took part in UDA firing parties and other operations. There was a female UVF member in Belfast during the 80s I can remember reading about somewhere.

Secondly, the ideology and nature of the organisations would mitigate against it. The IRA consciously modelled itself as a revolutionary, socialist, national liberation movement. Consequently, it fell into the perception of seeing women as equal participants in struggle, as supporting the liberation of women and so on. National liberation movements in Africa, Europe and Latin America accepted women in their ranks.

We shouldn't exagerrate either. While there were hundreds of female IRA volunteers over the last thirty years they never made up anything but a minority. The IRA was a male dominated organisation, but unlike Loyalism encouraged and attracted female militants. As I write this Maireád Farrell's photograph is right in front of me, but there were many more less high profile.

Loyalism on the other hand is essentially a reactionary ideology, quasi-fascist in nature with a focus on opposing change, maintaining the status quo and thus hardly a place where culturally women would be seen as part of their struggle. Bear in mind too that Loyalist paramilitarism never had the level of support in its community that the IRA did, and that women who might have wanted to take up arms against the IRA could, and did, join the RIR or the RUC where they could be respected members of their communities.

Very well spoken/written. I think though that the last bit about joining the RIR and RUC let it dow a little - but a good post nonetheless.

[cain1798]

Very well spoken/written. I think though that the last bit about joining the RIR and RUC let it dow a little - but a good post nonetheless.

'Scanning for sarcasm.....'

Hmmm.

That last bit is something loyalists have often said themselves. I think most neutral observers would probably acknowledge that there is a substantial difference in ability, education, politicisation etc. between IRA volunteers and UDA/UVF members. If it wasn't down to the superiority of the Irish race then it must be something else.

If you are a republican and decided you felt so strongly you wanted to use force to achieve the republic, there really was only the IRA to join.

If you were a loyalist and wanted to 'smash the IRA' you could join loyalist paramilitaries, face possible jailtime and the fear or disgust of your community. Or you could join the RIR or the RUC and achieve much the same while being respected and paid and obey the law. And if you slipped a rifle or an intelligence sheet to the lads in the local on Friday night, sure who'd bother with it?

[commentator]

Marxist movements actively include women knowing them to be frequently deadlier than the male.

Fascist movements do not.

End of story.

[brenners']

I don’t think you could call the IRA Marxist? Can you explain that point a small bit please, what would lead you to believe they where so ?

[commentator]

I don’t think you could call the IRA Marxist? Can you explain that point a small bit please, what would lead you to believe they where so ?

If you quibble at marxist I will substitute left wing.

The point remains that leftist/marxist/"people's revolution" type groups include women and fascist "blood and soil" groups do not.

Broadly speaking The IRA were among the former. The loyalist paras amongthe latter

[merle haggard]

Joe Tiernan and Don Mullans books on the Dublin Monaghan bombings name Lily Shiels from South Armagh as a member of the Glenanne gang . She was the housekeeper and consort of the scumbag who owned the farmyard were the bombs were assembled by the British forces . She also assisted scouting catholic pubs for killing sprees by the RUC .

Women are believed to have participated in some of the worst excesses of the 1970s loyalist shebeens were both catholic and protestants met grisly prolonged deaths in UDA drinking clubs .A handful of women were to the forefront of the LVF prior to its demise , mostly relatives of senior LVF leaders , one of whom is believed to have shot a catholic teenager dead in Portadown.

There was a particularly annoying bird from Belfast who was active on the loyalist side of the Lower Ormeau dispute as a spokesperson and was never off the television for a couple of years. She was caught in the field at Drumcree with pipe bombs in the late 90s , cant remember her name but she was a total minger . She was a former associate of David Trimbles chum hardline unionist Edgar Graham whom the IRA assassinated during the 1980s . She was also responsible for one of the great comedy moments of the troubles when she declared in all seriousness to journalists that Gerard Rice was only opposing the Orange marchers going through the lower Ormeau because he was deeply attracted to her . Mad as a hatter .

In recent years loyalists have used young women in attempts to lure young catholic men coming out of nightclubs in Ardoyne worse the wear for drink into sectarian ambushes .

When all is said and done loyalist paramilitaries are generally made up of gutter trash underclass types and the women who consort with them are usually every bit as scummy as the men . They tend more to be the girlfriends/whores of the male leaders and not volunteers fighting for a cause such as is traditional on the republican side.