Catholic Church Abuse.

[dmc444]

I think the important thing to take from this horrific report is that we have to ensure that this is never allowed to happen again.

One thing i would like to know, how did sucessive governments fail so badly in dealing with this?

[oscartango]

Fianna Fail the bishops' party, Chrisco - yes, we know.

[marmurr1916]

It certainly should not be forgotten.

Here's a statement from one of the witnesses.

Note how the pigs were better fed than the children.

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[SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique]He ...[/FONT][/SIZE]
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[FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2](Br X)[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2]... flogged me one time, I was working in the piggery. I used to be starving, the pigs used to get the Brothers’ leftovers and one day there was lovely potatoes and I took some and I took a turnip. Br ...[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2]X[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2]... caught me and he brought me up to the dormitory, he let down my trousers and he lashed me. He always wore a leather, around 18 inches ...[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2](long)[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2]... and it was all stitched with wax, his leather was very thin. It was about an inch and a half, others had leathers about 2 inches. He lashed me, he flogged me.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

There was no escape:

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[SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica]Reports of running away were frequently accompanied by accounts of persistent physical and sexual abuse.[/FONT][/SIZE]

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[SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique]I ran away a few times. He ...[/FONT][/SIZE]

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[FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2](Br X)[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2]... was trying always to put his hand down my leg....[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2]
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[SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica](On return to the School)[/FONT][/SIZE]

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[FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Times New Roman]... I was put up on rafters. There was an old shed there, it was[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique]

[SIZE=2]a barn, I was tied to the rafters, he ...[/SIZE]

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[FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2](Br X)[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2]... had the rope over the top, I was like that ...[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2]demonstrated spread out facing down[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2]... he lashed me with the leather, over the back and down the arms, that happened on 4 or 5 occasions, I ran away again after that.[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]

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[SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica]Named School[/FONT][/SIZE]

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[FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Times New Roman]... ruined my life. Night-times were the worst; if you weren’t taken out of[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique]

[SIZE=2]bed and beaten you were listening to it happening to someone else. You could hear the screams all over the whole building at night it was so quiet. Up to 4 Brothers would[/SIZE]
[SIZE=2]come and take a boy out of bed on some pretext and give him a hammering, make you take off your nightshirt, they would do what they wanted. They were like a pack of[/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]hunting animals.[/SIZE]
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Witnesses described contact sexual abuse including: inspection of genitalia, kissing, fondling of genitalia, forced masturbation of, and by, an abuser, digital penetration, penetration by objects, oral and anal rape and attempted rape, by individuals and groups. Witnesses also reported several forms of non-contact sexual abuse including detailed interrogation about sexual activity, indecent exposure, inappropriate sexual talk, voyeurism, and forced public nudity. Some witnesses gave accounts of isolated incidents of sexual abuse and others reported being sexually abused on many occasions, over a period of months or years.

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[SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique]One night I was lying in bed and I was woke up by ...[/FONT][/SIZE][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica][SIZE=2](Br X)[/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2]... he said “I’m not going to [/SIZE][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique][SIZE=2][SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique]harm you or anything, don’t be afraid”. At that time I thought he just wanted to chat, I[/FONT][/SIZE]

[SIZE=2][FONT=Helvetica-Oblique]thought it was a normal thing. The next thing he sat on my bed, he said “don’t be afraid, I’m not going to hit you”. The next thing he took hold of my hand, put my hand on his privates, I took my hand away and with that he slapped me, he slapped me quite a few times and I was crying and he left. He came back later, he opened his trousers and took my hand and put it on his privates, out of total fear I obeyed. He instructed me in what to do and that amounted to masturbation and that continued over the time I was there.[/FONT][/SIZE]

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[Cato]

Truly shocking report.

I was at a Christian Brothers organised concert a few weeks ago (which was of the highest quality and superbly run) and to think that this kind of thing went on under their watch is incredulous.

I hope and pray that this dark period in the Irish Church's history can be put behind us.

The Christian Brothers and the Church in Ireland should be given every support in their battle against this evil.

It should not be put behind us. The history of this should be taught in schools as an example of what happens when religious organizations gain too much power and authority in the state.

While on an individual level this was a case of (more than) a few bad apples, at an institutional level it is an example of institutional evil and the facilitation of evil.

I don't believe in god or hell, but I hope that those who carried out these acts, or hid them up or facilitated them, or looked the other way go to their death beds haunted and tortured by the thought that hell is not hot enough or eternity long enough for them.

[imokyrok]

Does the report give any recomendations to prosecute those who failed to report sexual and physical abuse to the authorities? To me this is the continuing scandal of our country - that nobody has been made accountable for turning a blind eye to what was happening. As for Factorem talking about this being part of our dark past - does anyone really think that this evil would not have continued if it hadn't had it's cover blown by those outside the church. It is a truly evil institution which in my view cares only that it was caught.

[marmurr1916]

Now would be the perfect time for a referendum on changing the constitution to allow the state to take ownerhship and control of all taxpayer supported schools.

[MuchToDo]

Now would be the perfect time for a referendum on changing the constitution to allow the state to take ownerhship and control of all taxpayer supported schools.

Do you think the State has any intention of doing such a thing? Why do you think we have the situation we have? Even many in the church would probably at this stage prefer the State to properly take over the education system.

And are people going to vote for parties who raise sufficient taxation to properly run the state and pay for sufficient state-run services (in education and other areas?)

[oscartango]

I went to an unChristian Brothers School myself where daily beatings (I don't just mean straps on hands) were routine.

Apart from us townies, the school also took in boys from a Catholic orphanage nearby which was run by nuns. We were not allowed to become friends with these orphan boys (honest!) and I recall some nonsense about them being the "product of sin" or some such drivel. It was only many years later that it dawned on me that their "crime" was not that they were orphans at all but that they were born out of wedlock.

They were treated even worse by the Brothers than we were. They got all the menial tasks to perform and would be beaten more severely. We had parents to go home to, who would see the marks on our faces, hands and legs and might inquire of the school what the hell was going on. But the "orphans" went back to the nuns - where they got more of the same.

I feel ashamed now that I didn't say or do anything away back then. But I was only a kid of less than 10. The adults definitely knew what was going on though.

[marmurr1916]

Do you think the State has any intention of doing such a thing? Why do you think we have the situation we have? Even many in the church would probably at this stage prefer the State to properly take over the education system.

And are people going to vote for parties who raise sufficient taxation to properly run the state and pay for sufficient state-run services (in education and other areas?)

This government won't last forever and it's now Labour Party policy to begin changes that will end up with publicly funded schools in public ownership and control.

[Factorem]

The Christian Brothers and the Church in Ireland are this evil.

The best way to put this dark period behind us is to put the Catholic Church behind us. Get them out of our schools, out of our hospitals and out of our government. Permanently.

Now you're just being a silly knee-jerker.