Catholic Church Abuse.

[Kev408]

It is very worrying to see emerging, on this thread and in news reports, a view that, as far as these offences are concerned, an accused, or those acting on their behalf, should not be entitled to challenge the accusation.

Our ideas of justice, and how it is determined, dictate that the orders are not only entitled to be, but have a duty to be, 'defensive' in the face of allegations.

I worry about what is being demanded in the name of 'cooperation'.

We should be careful not to replace one injustice with another.

I'm not sure whether this reply is called 'denial' or 'obfuscation'. Anyway, we knew such a reply was coming.

[HughinBandon]

What I would like to propose is within this debate; What action should be taken as citizens against such orders as the Christian Brothers, the Sisters of Mercy and the wider church which gives them support in their attempt via the government to control this issue?

Remember:
• The government has been and continues to hide the names of clerics who are guilty beyond doubt of sadistic and sexual crimes against Irish children.

•The report released today is deliberately being released in small numbers and is not available digitally so that the full horror of it cannot be distributed widely online. The cover-up continues.

• The Irish Government has arranged matters on behalf of the catholic church so that the vast bulk of compensation paid to victims of this psychological, emotional and physical holocaust on generations of Irish children comes from the Irish taxpayer and not from the church. This is in effect a tithe on all Irish people and a de facto tax on Irish society as a whole in order to pay off the church’s rightful debts.

Bearing in mind what I have realised about the strange behaviour of people like Factorem in distracting the debate from these important points I wish openly to move the debate forward to practical methods of obtaining justice and apportioning the blame for these disgusting crimes where they should be.

What do people think should be done with regard to the orders involved in these abuse cases?

What practical measures can the citizen take given that there are elements within current and past governments of the Republic actively covering still these crimes?
Are we justified in taking direct action?

[note to moderators. I HAVE NOT ADVOCATED VIOLENCE OR PERSONAL ATTACKS.]

Thanks for bearing with me on a necessarily long post.

Very necessary and very well put. I think I admire your obvious restraint above all else.

[Geekzilla]

Parents need to never underestimate the ability of paedophiles to hone in on vulnerable children in any organisation which has access to children. If your child is going away overnight or on trips with any organisation always enquire about the guidelines for child protection. The very act of enquiring will alert a paedophile that you child is less vulnerable, as their parents are watching out for such things. Don't allow embarassment to put you of asking and make sure your child knows about stay safe rules.

Excellent advice

I would advise people not to wait for such topics to be covered in school as schools have to be circumspect to prevent some parents kicking up a fuss. There is a terrific little stay safe story book I used with my kids which I think I got from the early learning centre many years ago. I'm sure there are several available now. They are a great starting point for ensuring your child always feels able to talk to you about such matters.

Also always highlight the importance of "telling". Don't ever give out to a child for telling tales or being a "telltale tatler". They should always feel they can bring any uncomfortable experience to your attention.

Well said.

[Geekzilla]

I was just thinking, Should there be an apology from the Pope and the government?

Yes, both should apologise and institute procedures and oversight so that it can be prevented.

[Geekzilla]

Fully with you D on this - what the f**k had Bertie Ahern got to say that would mean anything to people who had their lives destroyed?

True - the state should also be held accountable.

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Very necessary and very well put. I think I admire your obvious restraint above all else.

Thank you Hugh. Its not because I am not angry- I am simply beyond anger, beyond disgust and beyond dignifying the obviously sick people who attempt to draw a line under these events.

The organisations and individuals still being protected by the state are a stain on our country's history and place in the world.

They have humiliated decent Irish people everywhere and quite obviously continue to do so.

Those in government must be exposed and rooted out. Those who took part in these crimes must be jailed, including the their accessories in the church and outside. Those who attempted and still attempt to cover up must be removed from any form of secular authority in the country.

Finally, church assets in Ireland including property, funds, land and buildings must be seized and the government must be forced if necessary to do this, those properties and lands only to be returned when compensation claims are paid in full by the church.

Now- the government are going to resist all this. How do we force it?

[Geekzilla]

No, what makes it particularly abhorrent is that they covered it up!

Agreed 100%.

Are you for real?

Sadly it seems so.

The Catholic Church has not yet properly sought forgiveness, nor has it yet done any penance, not to society anyway.

Indeed.

The report even notes that some of the orders did not co=operate properly or willingly with them.

Don't get me started.

[darkknight]

The full Report is now available online:
Commission to Inquire into Child Abuse

[Captain Con O'Sullivan]

Thanks darkknight- some news organisations were carrying reports earlier today that only soft copies would be available in small numbers. I appreciate this and will read the reports- all 5 volumes. I'm not looking forward to it but it has to be done.

[Factorem]

You can be sure that countless prayers will be said at bedtime tonight.

I have every confidence the Church are doing everything in their power to attone for their sins. Cardinal Brady does not have an easy task as Primate of All Ireland. But you can be damn sure that he'll do everything in his power (he's a man of utmost integrity and wisdom) to ensure that the victims are looked after and that they receive the justice they deserve.

The release of today's report is a black day for the Church in Ireland. I hope and I pray that people can find it in themselves to forgive the perpetrators who have committed these acts of evil.