How will history judge the Provos?

[Limerick Lad]

Its not as simple as that, the civil rights campaigners were non violent, they were battoned of the streets, and shot dead by the British Army,
Do you think an initial peaceful campaign would of achieved anything at the time, given the circumstances of intitutionlised discrimination?

Yes because it was democratic politics that achieved a settlement in the end not violence, murder and mayhem and unlike those being euglised as martyrs on another thread here, those who suffered and died trying to achieve civil rights peacefully in the face of brutal opposition are the true martyrs of the struggle for equality in Northern Ireland.

[Cato]

Imagine if all the effort and commitment put into killing RUC officers, British soldiers and suspected informers had been put into a peaceful campaign of civil disobedience with its eye always on retaining the moral highground in the international media.

Could that not have achieved more, faster?

The answer is obvious.

I think that this (in spite of the rocky start) could be the start of a beautiful friendship.

I agree with every word above.

[QuizMaster]

Who coined the term "Sunningdale for slow learners"?
Anyway, to me that's the key to understanding the shinners.

Fastest learners: SDLP
Next: SF
Finally: Dissident "republicans".

Also, they stopped murdering people, so a pat on the back for that.

[Cato]

Obviously not, you seem to think that there was no nationalists partaking in the so called political process during the 70 year period pre-troubles, there was, and they got precisely nowhere for their efforts.

So the obvious solution was to start killing innocent people.

I think that you need to re-set your moral compass there. I make it a principle of mine not to support any organization or ideology that advocates murder as a way of achieving anything.

Tell me, if the government bring in pay-cuts to the public service and you are frustrated in your discussions with them, are you going to start killing people. I think we ought to know?

[Garibaldy]

NICRA had succeeded in breaking the basis of the discriminatory Stormont regime before a shot was fired in terms of one man, one vote, jobs and housing. The outbreak of violence in August 1969 - for which the most reactionary elements of unionism were responsible - need not have seen an end to peaceful protest. Unfortunately the worst elements from across the community got the chance to get off the leash.

[hopi watcher]

So the obvious solution was to start killing innocent people.

I think that you need to re-set your moral compass there. I make it a principle of mine not to support any organization or ideology that advocates murder as a way of achieving anything.

Tell me, if the government bring in pay-cuts to the public service and you are frustrated in your discussions with them, are you going to start killing people. I think we ought to know?

What sort of a prat are you? Comparing the denial of basic human rghts with pay cuts? Speaks volumes for your 'moral compass'

[discosunbeams]

[COLOR="Red"] [/COLOR]

The legacy of the provos, the group that claimed a draw but were really beaten hands down. A legacy of fuel smuggling and Manchester property deals, A legacy of how much money can we lay our hands on and keep for ourselves. Grow up, history will not be kind to the provos it will see them for what they were!!!!!!

Do you really know who they are? people who had been discrimnated against and beaten down by the RUC, children who grew up to see the hatred in the eyes of the 'police' force as they ignored them when they were in need and beat them when they fought back. These are men and women who sacrificed themselves because they truly believed they could make a better future for their children. Some bad eggs thrown in there like in all organisations. People argue that there was no need for violence and then call them terrorists, are America terrorists then? what about England for fighting in Afghanistan and Iraq along with their allies, why is it people don't hold the same opinion of them? they are at 'war'? the reason is because they are rich and powerful. Look, I know it still depends on who tells it, but when you study the history and you see the injustices suffered by nationalist communities in the north it becomes no wonder that people relied on the IRA and joined it in the hopes for change. How else would they have done it? do you really think the Good Friday Agreement would have taken place if it wasn't for the fact that the IRA existed? It is the same situation in Gaza, people judge Hamas and write them off as terrorists but what have they experienced? why did the people elect them? because they had no one else to trust, the world had turned their back on them. The UVF and the UDA are still heavily present in the North and are currently involved in drug smuggling etc and murders they are largely ignored by the Southern media, why is that? The IRA is gone now because it is time for politics to take place, in the time of the IRA, Sinn Féin were not given a proper place in politics and now that they are gaining the respect and support they need the IRA has disbanded.

[Cato]

What sort of a prat are you? Comparing the denial of basic human rghts with pay cuts? Speaks volumes for your 'moral compass'

Fair enough, the last comment was deliberately factious. Now would you like to have a stab at the substantive point?

[discosunbeams]

So the obvious solution was to start killing innocent people.

I think that you need to re-set your moral compass there. I make it a principle of mine not to support any organization or ideology that advocates murder as a way of achieving anything.

Tell me, if the government bring in pay-cuts to the public service and you are frustrated in your discussions with them, are you going to start killing people. I think we ought to know?

I think there is quite some difference in being denied proper housing, work, services than getting a pay cut, wouldn't you agree?

[Cato]

I think there is quite some difference in being denied proper housing, work, services than getting a pay cut, wouldn't you agree?

Believe me I do. I was being a little factious, and I admit that I was (wrongly) attempting to ball the man not the ball.