Note how the northern republican butt brothers like merle and Madame Crowley etc have kept silent. Thank god!What began as a struggle for civil rights was hijacked into a war to end British rule in Ireland. It ended in an argument over how British rule in Ireland should be administered. On that basis it is not difficult to conclude who won.
Are we back to your whole 'genetic guilt' thing again. As a concept it just about sums up your ability for rational argument.Originally Posted by Glennshane
Now run along. I'm sure you have some "Brits Out" graffiti to scrawl somewhere. It must be great to be able to express the entirety of your political thinking in two words.
"We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep." - The Tempest, Act 4, Scene 1
This particular question seem to have struck a very sensitive nerve.he brit
Yes the Provos struck with what they felt was their only option.
Yes the british army response was wrong.
Yes the british government is wholly responsible for the entire mess.
Yes the ruc aggravated the situation
Yes the unionists were w major part of the problem.
Yes to all of those who are defending either side.
But the Question remains how will history look upon the Provos.
I personally believe that history will be harsh on the Provos because of the death and destruction they brought upon the land.
All of us naturally have different opinions. However I just don't see the sense of making a hero out of Collins (a killer) Dev (a killer) if you then go on to condemn the provos without understanding the political and social reasons why they existed. Although I always supported the republican movement I never agreed with the "armed struggle". I am a pacifist and find all killing abhorrent, state or paramilitary. However I know that yesterdays terrorists have the habit of becoming today or tomorrows statesmen and women. In my opinion as someone who has been a member of Sinn Féin throughout the war in the north I only wish that the campaign had ended much earlier. Countless lives could have been saved and many of my friends and relatives would still be alive today. I regret their passing as I regret the death of any human being.
Last edited by Tiernanator; 16th May 2009 at 12:36 AM.
and Joseph how many of your relatives died and how many times did the British army kick your door down. It is easy to be reflective after the events. Perhaps as Bobby Sands wrote "you stood by while I was wronged". I chose to stand by my own community and my own people. That does not mean I supported every action they took in fact I disagreed fundamentally with the violence. Mind you as I stated in my other post it is very easy to make heroes out of those who win the battles. The provos did what they did. Nothing can change that but history has a habit of being kind to those who fight oppression. Maybe not at first but often on reflection opinions change. Your british filtered view of my and my friends and families history is not the reality that I or they lived in. Until you walk a mile in a man's mocassins you can't really understand the journey of that man.
Good Post - find strange though that you say you are a pacifist but refer to 'war' in North and was a member of Sinn Fein - are the two compatiable
The truth is that the government of the ROI did stand by while nationalists where being burned from their homes and murdered by loyalist/ruc thugs. It is easy for you to be cynical but I remember my home area being destroyed by the b special/ruc and their minions in the loyalist community. I do not defend the killings by the provos but perhaps if the government of the republic had been a bit more sabre-rattling then the loyalists may have thought twice about their murderous antics. I only hope you or yours never have to see what I did when I was a young child. The fact that I didn't resort to violence is always a wonder to me.
Last edited by Tiernanator; 16th May 2009 at 01:02 AM.
And another group of men who went about and used armed struggle against the british forces of occupation and were subsequently vilified by the public, were recently commemorated by the gov. Of course this group used armed struggle in 1916.
I'm not cynical about your experiences at all, just a the 'gentleman' who believes that I have genetic guilt for what happened in 1969, before I was a dirty thought in my father's mind.
I have to say that I was touched by the humanity in your posts.
"We are such stuff
As dreams are made on; and our little life
Is rounded with a sleep." - The Tempest, Act 4, Scene 1
the civil rights campaign was not concerned with removing the British presence , the provos were dedicated solely to that aim . The campaign of insurrection against foreign rule was not initated or persued to have a fairer system of foreign rule in Ireland . British soldiers were not shot and blown up to get equal British citizenship for the residents of fermanagh and ardoyne .
hisotry will judge the provos as being responsible for deliberately creating this type of confusion also in their later incarnation , although the stupidity and illogicality of many Irish people is pretty much responsible too .
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