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  1. #11
    Gabha Óir Gabha Óir is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by diy01 View Post
    McHale's own father was an Irish monoglot from Mayo but scolded his son for using the language around him.
    I'm writing from memory here so ....but did not Mc Hale 'The Lion of the West' admonish Ó Laoire at his graduation for academic prowess in everything but Irish. A cathartic dressing down if you will. I also recall(vaguely) that he was the only Irish bishop to vote against a papal encyclical in protest at the lack of support the church showed for the poor. He was a darling of a former lecturer of mine and I probably had a hangover that day, hence, the doubts about dates and times.
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  2. #12
    Nem Nem is offline

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    This is quite an interesting point actually:

    "How can a language which needs its own official Act and its own Language Commissioner to protect it from the government of the State in which it is the first official language, not be doomed to die?"

    - Dr. Feargal Ó Béarra, NUI Galway, 2007
    There was an item on the BBC News earlier in the week showing how here in Belfast the number of pupils at an Irish language school was growing steadily. And this is without any legislation. The Welsh example has been mentioned quite often I think. Learning a different language can be very rewarding and enriching. But it is not for everyone. IMHO if the choice is there, it will grow naturally.
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  3. #13
    diy01 diy01 is offline
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    They've entered the "cultural" part of the struggle. I'm not yet convinced that it can be sustained long term. Although I hope it is!

    I would say though that the surge in people learning Irish in recent years is partly due to an unsympathetic government (compared to the Republic) and a lack of support or even broad sympathy across the community (meaning nationalist, unionists and everyone in between). So I think that is definitely spurring people on and driving home the point that they can't expect any material support from the Gov. or most of the parties in the Assembly.

    Where were all these Irish schools and classes back in the 30s or 40s? Back when there were still small organic gaeltachtaí hanging on in Tyrone and on Rathlin.
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  4. #14
    Gabha Óir Gabha Óir is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by diy01 View Post
    They've entered the "cultural" part of the struggle. I'm not yet convinced that it can be sustained long term. Although I hope it is!

    I would say though that the surge in people learning Irish in recent years is partly due to an unsympathetic government (compared to the Republic) and a lack of support or even broad sympathy across the community (meaning nationalist, unionists and everyone in between). So I think that is definitely spurring people on and driving home the point that they can't expect any material support from the Gov. or most of the parties in the Assembly.

    Where were all these Irish schools and classes back in the 30s or 40s? Back when there were still small organic gaeltachtaí hanging on in Tyrone and on Rathlin.
    Hey dude ...my da didn't even have a vote never mind a chance to be seeking funding for a Irish medium school. The Stormont regime didn't kind of dig it much. With partition most of the interest in Irish among the Unionist elite reflected in such people like Róis Ní hÓgáin (One of the Youngs of Galgorm/Larne gun running fame) disapated like snow off a rope. Rathlin was 100% Irish speaking in 1900 which is particularly sad considering how quick it expired. Now there's a warning against complacency
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  5. #15
    diy01 diy01 is offline
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    Are you sure? A book I have claims that the barony which included Rathlin was only 14% Irish speaking in 1851. Unless all the English speakers were restricted to the Glens.
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  6. #16
    diy01 diy01 is offline
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    Correction:

    Lower Glenarm Barony was 14.9% Irish speaking according to the 1851 Census. (1,469 speakers)
    Based on the map it looks like this included Cushendall and Cushendun. The last gaeltacht communities on the Antrim mainland.

    The Barony which included Rathlin was actually Cary which was 6.7% Irish speaking (1,214 speakers, including 11 monoglots).

    In 1891 this figure had dropped to 2.7%. 340 speakers. All bilingual.
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  7. #17
    Gabha Óir Gabha Óir is offline
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    Quote Originally Posted by diy01 View Post
    Are you sure? A book I have claims that the barony which included Rathlin was only 14% Irish speaking in 1851. Unless all the English speakers were restricted to the Glens.
    Canon Laverty was parish priest on the island at the time and he stated this in his memoir. He baptised my father though that doesn't prove anything. He did also mention proud Church of Ireland Irish speakers.
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  8. #18
    Nem Nem is offline

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    Quote Originally Posted by diy01 View Post
    So I think that is definitely spurring people on and driving home the point that they can't expect any material support from the Gov. or most of the parties in the Assembly.
    Eventually there will be some kind of language bill, I have no doubt about that. But with the way education is here now I can't see any further significant funding towards that. Unless the numbers really go up. But I think the number of people doing Irish is going up considerably here anyway.
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  9. #19
    diy01 diy01 is offline
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    Although the figures for the 1851 census are generally accepted to represent an underestimation, they aren't THAT MUCH of an underestimation. I don't see how any community, whether on an offshore island or the mainland, could have been 100% Irish speaking in Ulster in the 19th century.

    Still, the figure for the Barony as a whole distorts the picture a bit. I remember reading some articles about the last native speakers back in the 50s so I don't see how it's possible that there could have even been a simple Irish speaking majority in 1900, never mind 100%.

    It's an interesting place because the Irish of Rathlin was once termed 'essentially a Scottish [Gaelic] dialect.' All the original inhabitants were massacred back in the 16th or 17th century and I guess replaced by Scots living on the Antrim mainland at some point. Either gallóglaigh or a long-established family like the MacDonnells of the Glens or perhaps Scots Gaelic speaking settlers.
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  10. #20
    cathal maguidhir cathal maguidhir is offline

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    the ferry is still running if they dont like it
    there was way to little blood letting of the west brit collaborators
    in the war of independance
    the irish are way too forgiving
    wonder when brian cohen,s people dropped the h ,to blend in
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