It was Ulster Unionists who put the gun in Irish politics

[Breadan O'Connor]

In 1912 Irish nationalists were represented by the Irish parliamentary party, led by John Redmond. Redmond was possibly the most moderate and pro-British leader Irish nationalists have ever had.

That same year however, Ulster Unionists broke out in opposition to the Home Rule bill which was proposed. Rather than negotiate with Redmond they signed the Ulster Covenant, which promised to resist Home Rule "by all means necessary" and founded the Ulster Volunteer militia. The volunteers were equipped with privately held weapons and in 1914 they even imported rifles from Britain's rival Germany. British army aristocratic officers mutinied rather than confront the Unionists.

Irish nationalists, feeling humiliated and threatened formed the Irish volunteers in response. In September 1914 however, the majority of the Irish volunteers sided with John Redmond and many even joined the British Army. It was only a minority who opposed Redmond. It was this minority who went on to carry out the 1916 rising.

Put simply, it was the Ulster Unionists who set in motion the chain of events which led to the 1916 rising.

[st333ve]

You mean we didnt invite the British over here and then just wake up one morning and attack them for no reason !?

I agree with your point, but my point is that no-one is under any illusions who is right or wrong when it comes to imperialism vs independence, except the puppets ofcourse.

[Catalpa]

In 1912 Irish nationalists were represented by the Irish parliamentary party, led by John Redmond. Redmond was possibly the most moderate and pro-British leader Irish nationalists have ever had.

That same year however, Ulster Unionists broke out in opposition to the Home Rule bill which was proposed. Rather than negotiate with Redmond they signed the Ulster Covenant, which promised to resist Home Rule "by all means necessary" and founded the Ulster Volunteer militia. The volunteers were equipped with privately held weapons and in 1914 they even imported rifles from Britain's rival Germany. British army aristocratic officers mutinied rather than confront the Unionists.

Irish nationalists, feeling humiliated and threatened formed the Irish volunteers in response. In September 1914 however, the majority of the Irish volunteers sided with John Redmond and many even joined the British Army. It was only a minority who opposed Redmond. It was this minority who went on to carry out the 1916 rising.

Put simply, it was the Ulster Unionists who set in motion the chain of events which led to the 1916 rising.

'Redmond was possibly the most moderate and pro-British leader Irish nationalists have ever had.'

Pre 1914 that just would not have been the case. Redmond was a Nationalist who was opposed to Partition and believed all of Ireland was one Country.

Compare that to the politicians of today and I think he comes across as pretty Nationalist in comparision.

But he certainly screwed up big time in throwing his hat (and ours!) into the ring when WWI broke out.

[Breadan O'Connor]

'Redmond was possibly the most moderate and pro-British leader Irish nationalists have ever had.'

Pre 1914 that just would not have been the case. Redmond was a Nationalist who was opposed to Partition and believed all of Ireland was one Country.

Compare that to the politicians of today and I think he comes across as pretty Nationalist in comparision.

But he certainly screwed up big time in throwing his hat (and ours!) into the ring when WWI broke out.

Legally, even the British conceded that Ireland was a unitary country, "The Kingdom of Ireland".

So Redmond was perfectly justified in believing Ireland was one country.

He wanted home rule for Ireland but Ireland would have remained in the British Empire.

[Catalpa]

Legally, even the British conceded that Ireland was a unitary country, "The Kingdom of Ireland".

So Redmond was perfectly justified in believing Ireland was one country.

He wanted home rule for Ireland but Ireland would have remained in the British Empire.

That's what most Nationalists were pushing for at the time - that was the mainstream opinion and he reflected that.

He was totally in sync with what the majority of Irish People both at Home and Abroad wanted.

Basically because they believed that was all that was realistically possible.

[droghedasouth]

The United Irishmen used guns in 1798.
The 1848 rebellion crowd had a few guns.
The Fenians used guns and explosives.
The Invincibles to be fair used surgical knives in their assassination of Burke and Cavandish in 1882.

[Cogadh]

The United Irishmen used guns in 1798.
The 1848 rebellion crowd had a few guns.
The Fenians used guns and explosives.
The Invincibles to be fair used surgical knives in their assassination of Burke and Cavandish in 1882.

You left out The Volunteers (18th Century version) and others who preceded them.

[code twinkle]

In 1912 Irish nationalists were represented by the Irish parliamentary party, led by John Redmond. Redmond was possibly the most moderate and pro-British leader Irish nationalists have ever had.

That same year however, Ulster Unionists broke out in opposition to the Home Rule bill which was proposed. Rather than negotiate with Redmond they signed the Ulster Covenant, which promised to resist Home Rule "by all means necessary" and founded the Ulster Volunteer militia. The volunteers were equipped with privately held weapons and in 1914 they even imported rifles from Britain's rival Germany. British army aristocratic officers mutinied rather than confront the Unionists.

Irish nationalists, feeling humiliated and threatened formed the Irish volunteers in response. In September 1914 however, the majority of the Irish volunteers sided with John Redmond and many even joined the British Army. It was only a minority who opposed Redmond. It was this minority who went on to carry out the 1916 rising.

Put simply, it was the Ulster Unionists who set in motion the chain of events which led to the 1916 rising.

well they certainly kicked off the Troubles

[Breadan O'Connor]

The United Irishmen used guns in 1798.
The 1848 rebellion crowd had a few guns.
The Fenians used guns and explosives.
The Invincibles to be fair used surgical knives in their assassination of Burke and Cavandish in 1882.

The only serious rebellion of those was the 1798 rebellion, and that was probably an agrarian rebellion provoked by brutal British actions.

The "rebellions" of the 19th century had little serious popular support.

The 1848 rebellion was an especially damp squib.

My contention is that by the beginning of the 20th century the tradition of Irish armed rebellion had essentially died out.

The Ulster Unionists provoked it's revival.

[Rocky]

The United Irishmen used guns in 1798.
The 1848 rebellion crowd had a few guns.
The Fenians used guns and explosives.
The Invincibles to be fair used surgical knives in their assassination of Burke and Cavandish in 1882.

But 1882 to 1916 is a long time. I'd say most of the people involved in 1916 weren't even alive in 1882.

There was no large Volunteer army in Ireland from 1798 until 1913 and that is obviously a long time. All those other rebellions/incidents were done by a time minority of Irish people.

The Unionists changed that by forming the Ulster Volunteer Force and the Irish Volunteers were formed in response to that. Ireland very quickly changed from a country with very few people armed, to a place with two large volunteer armies and it was the Unionists who began that.