McGurks Bar: British apolgise for the lies told.

[blinding]

in defence of Southerners who admittedly were incredibly manipulated by their media, which was and still is, directly influenced by the BBC/UK media, it is also pretty bloody rational to me that we collectively put our heads in the sand.

War is vile - and almost exclusively for males in their late teens - and if you think you have a way of avoiding it why wouldn't you?

One question we must adress is how much trust can we put in the media that contains many of the people that mislead us about events in our own country to advance their own agenda.We must strive for investigative journalists that will tell us the truth and not what their masters want us to hear.Lies and corruption are not confined to politicians.

[code twinkle]

in defence of Southerners who admittedly were incredibly manipulated by their media, which was and still is, directly influenced by the BBC/UK media, it is also pretty bloody rational to me that we collectively put our heads in the sand.

War is vile - and almost exclusively for males in their late teens - and if you think you have a way of avoiding it why wouldn't you?

One question we must adress is how much trust can we put in the media that contains many of the people that mislead us about events in our own country to advance their own agenda.We must strive for investigative journalists that will tell us the truth and not what their masters want us to hear.Lies and corruption are not confined to politicians.

Agree totally. The current mainstream media in this country is very very neutered. I do think there is quality info coming from online though, its just a question of seeking it out.

Regarding the McGurk's apology, while welcome, it is essentially a damage limitation exercise. The Minister of State said of the MoD assertions to the media at the time - there were "erroneous suggestions made in the immediate aftermath of the explosion about who was responsible. Such perceptions and preconceived ideas should never have been allowed to cloud the actual evidence."

It is far more likely that the "perceptions" that "cloud[ed] the evidence" were deliberate disinformation, dessiminated to discredit the IRA and the Catholic community, ie. a "black op". An off-the-record briefing given to the media by a BA soldier at the time when the Army were "erroneously" jumping to conclusions about who was responsible, claimed that a Catholic man shot in the Markets area the day after the bombing was a member of the IRA who was killed as punishment for the PR disaster of the IRA setting the bomb off in McGurks.

This turned out to be totally untrue (he was an IRA member who accidently set off his own weapon and died as a result, which was acknowledged by the IRA immediately after the event, see Irish Times coverage of this the following day). The "off-the-record briefing" was therefore clearly a pre-meditated fabrication fed to the media and designed to bolster the story that the IRA were behind McGurks and that the victims were not innocent.

Whatever about misguidedly following an uncertain, but plausible enough, line in response to inaccurate forensic information - which is what the British govt has apologised for - totally fabricating a story like the above is pretty clear evidence of a deliberate disinformation campaign on the part of the BA.

It was part of the Army's strategy of the time (and remains so) and it is this that should be admitted to and apologised for by the British govt.

(As for the Army, ironically, being behind the bomb itself, that's for another day)

[ciaranmacairt]

To All.
There should be no hierarchy of victimhood and each death throughout the whole of the war should be mourned by all - but keep to the debate in hand and consider the ramifications of the McGurk's Bar Massacre. Consider who organized it, consider who managed media misinformation, consider who controlled what cabinet ministers said, consider who mismanaged any serious investigation and consider the path the war took after the atrocity. Then consider the truth and the innocence of the victims.

Visit http://www.themcgurksbarmassacre.com.

From a grandson of Kitty Irvine who was slaughtered in the blast.

[Catalpa]

To All.
There should be no hierarchy of victimhood and each death throughout the whole of the war should be mourned by all - but keep to the debate in hand and consider the ramifications of the McGurk's Bar Massacre. Consider who organized it, consider who managed media misinformation, consider who controlled what cabinet ministers said, consider who mismanaged any serious investigation and consider the path the war took after the atrocity. Then consider the truth and the innocence of the victims.

Visit http://www.themcgurksbarmassacre.com.

From a grandson of Kitty Irvine who was slaughtered in the blast.

John Taylor is something else all right!

Looks like even a simple apology here is beyond him - like is he really this arrogant?

Welcome to the Site BTW Ciaranmacairt.

[merle haggard]

thats the same John Taylor who referred to another pub massacre by British military intelligence agents , Loughinisland , as quite helpful politically on the news the next morning .

[Roger]

ive read something recently , an account from British soldiers , who claim they were ordered from on high to stay clear of the area prior to the explosion . Must try and track that one down .

I've always suggested that the only people who will ever convince us down south of the extreme and appalling injustices of the ongoing occupation of 6 of our counties, will be the British soldiers who served and witnessed the extraordinary unfairness that resulted from being a Nationalist. I'm not sure how many years it will take for people in the south to finally cop on and get pissed off about it...but I wouldn't hold my breath.

In the meantime we'll continue to rant and rave about East Timor, Palestine, South Africa....and so on. The world watching the 26 counties is just about seeing us for what we are - shamefully subservient to our masters in the UK. I'm ashamed and I despair.

Very true. In September 1979 the government of the ROI, led by Jack Lynch, banned a South Africian rugby team from playing in Limerick. Foreign Minister Micheal Kennedy explained "The government is opposed to discrimination in sport whether on grounds of race or religion." In that same month the "no Catholics" Linfield soccer team was allowed to play in Dundalk. The government of the ROI was obviously more concerned about rugby discrimination against Blacks in far-off South Africia than it was about soccer discrimination against Catholics in near-bye Ulster.

[080829k]

<Mod> This post has been removed. </Mod>

[Aindriu]

Yes, when the British were everywhere in the country. The West Britism seen today seems to stem mostly from wanting to be seen to be against anything the Provos stood for. Practitioners of West Britism are in the main people who are so desperate to be seen as 100% opposite to republicans that they have allowed themselves to be carried to extreme levels of opposition to any republican thought or notion.

thats true on one level but the issue goes a lot deeper . Theres a lot of killing your father psychological stuff involved , destruction of ones own national culture and identity leading to alienation from your society , leading to identification with another . Particularly one thats seen as more powerful ,successful , cosmopolitan and all the rest . For a lot of these weirdoes the provos were just a focus . When its not them its the GAA , 1916 , Irish language , preists, even fianna fail . They dont hate fianna fails corruption only their perceived national identity . - anything identifiably Irish in origin becomes a target for their mental imbalance . Unfortunately for us the conflict made this mental illness into a job opportunity .

check out this utter ************************stain whos going to be a regular target of my much awaited blog and youll see exactly what I mean

http://gombeennation.blogspot.com/

Myers is Irish, born and bred!
It certainly is a fascinating subject. You know, it was only when I started using the internet regularly about 3 or 4 years ago that the full horror of West Britism really hit. Of course I'd known about such creatures such as Cruiser, Myers (who actually is a Brit pretending to be a Paddy pretending to be a Brit for some unknown but obviously sick reason, but that's beside the point) and the like, but hadn't really given them all that much thought. It was only being confronted with and confronting their type among the population through the internet on a regular basis that opened my eyes fully to the sheer rampant, insane, possibly incurable West Britism that exists in Ireland today. And then I bought the Sindo for the first time... Now I can't get over it all. I still become shocked at how deep it is in the nation. Oh for those days of bliss not so long ago when it was just another term to me...

[ciaranmacairt]

yes Merle - there was allegations of collusion

Visit Home Page to see what the families think of the belated British apology. We are far from finished yet.

Ciarán

[Catalpa]

Visit Home Page to see what the families think of the belated British apology. We are far from finished yet.

Ciarán

Keep up the good work Ciarán.