Diarmaid Ferriter - professor Modern Irish History at UCD

[Catalpa]

Interpreting Irish History was a good book if a bit heavy going - that's about 10 years ago now though isn't it?

We are into the Post revisionsist stage now - its a more relaxed discipline nowadays. I really think a lot of historians were looking over their shoulder back in the 80's and early 90's in case they got smeared with the 'closet provo' tag if they wrote down the wrong conclusions.

[Garibaldy]

Just to say that revisionism goes back to the 1960s as a political-historical project (for want of a better term), but that the turn away from national myth making has roots going back beyond the 1930s, but the seminal moment was the founding of Irish Historical Studies. As for the characterisation of the non-revisionist historians listed above as anti-revisionists, at least one of them (Sean Cronin) wrote mostly before the revisionism thing kicked off, and never engaged in it. In fact, his work could be seen as socialist revision of the national story that was the target of political-historical revisionism.

[Kev408]

Notwithstanding revisionism, until I started to study history I always thought it would be a simple list of facts and dates. How wrong was I! History is all about interpretation and perspective. In terms of fatalities, after the Stardust fire the single worst incident in Ireland was the German bombing of the North Strand, Dublin in 1941. I had to do a thesis on local history and chose that bombing as my topic. Here's an extract to highlight what I mean about interpretation:

'The actual number of fatalities which resulted from the bombing seems to vary depending on the source, as the following examples show. Ferriter (2005) states that '..the bombing of Dublin's North Strand, in which 43 people were killed, was as close as Ireland got to the Blitz...' p. 387. Dublin City Council Archives states that there were ‘..34 dead and 90 injured..’REF Dowling and O’Reilly (2002) suggest a figure of '..39 dead and hundreds more injured.' (p. 162) The Department of Defence Civil Defence School report of 10 years later states ‘twenty-eight persons were killed, forty-five were seriously injured, while some hundreds suffered minor injuries, some of whom were hospital cases.’ REF Geraghty and Whitehead (2004) claim that ‘in all 34 people died, ninety were injured, requiring hospital treatment, and up to 300 dwellings were destroyed or seriously damaged.’ 232 There we have five reliable sources and not one is the same as another. The sad fact is we may never know the absolute number of people who died in the North Strand bombing, or the number of those whose deaths at a later date were the direct result of injuries sustained in the bombing.'

Not even 70 years later and we still don't know how many people died. Anyway, with regards to Ferriter I didn't like his 'Transformation...' . I found it to be a little convoluted. My favourite Historian is Alvin Jackson by a mile.

[Starkadder]

Interpreting Irish History was a good book if a bit heavy going - that's about 10 years ago now though isn't it?

We are into the Post revisionsist stage now - its a more relaxed discipline nowadays. I really think a lot of historians were looking over their shoulder back in the 80's and early 90's in case they got smeared with the 'closet provo' tag if they wrote down the wrong conclusions.

I think Ferriter describes himself as a "Post-revisionist" somewhere in one of his books.

[Catalpa]

the single worst incident in Ireland was the German bombing of the North Strand, Dublin in 1941

Surely you mean in the history of the Irish State and not Ireland per se?

If so then the Dublin and Monaghan bombings are up there alongside the North Strand ones.

As for tragedies the Stardust was the worst in recent years but IIRC in Emergency years there was a terrible one in some country town?

[Kev408]

the single worst incident in Ireland was the German bombing of the North Strand, Dublin in 1941

Surely you mean in the history of the Irish State and not Ireland per se?

If so then the Dublin and Monaghan bombings are up there alongside the North Strand ones.

As for tragedies the Stardust was the worst in recent years but IIRC in Emergency years there was a terrible one in some country town?

Yeh, 26 counties since 1922. The Monaghan and Dublin bombings were two separate incidents although they occurred on the same day. Also, the second bomb at Summerhill claimed at least one life but we do not consider that as the same incident as the North Strand even though it happened 30 minutes earlier about 500 yards away. Indeed, here's another extract for you:

Patrick McLoughlin of 41, Summerhill Parade had taken his family from Summerhill to 156 or 157, North Strand Road (sources vary) to escape the second bomb that night, which had landed at Summerhill. Tragically, both Patrick and his son William (2) died in the North Strand bombing.

Patrick and his son are included in the North Strand death toll but the person(s) who died at Summerhill are not.

There were several bombing incidents and lives were lost. I think 3 sisters from one family were killed down the country. Arklow was bombed as was Cavan, Dublin on several occasions and many other areas but there was nothing remotely as bad as North Strand. I'm reluctant to affirm a hierarchy of disasters but I believe it goes like this: Whiddy island , 50 dead (not all Irish), Stardust fire 48 dead, North Strand bombing 38 in my opinion, Dublin bombings 1974 26 dead (but they are also considered 3 separate incidents), Buttevant train crash 18 dead. I hope I'm not forgetting anything. There was the Air India plane crash in which 329 men, women and children died in 1985 which happened in Irish waters too.

[Catalpa]

This terrible tragedy has all but been forgotten now:


Cavan Orphanage Fire Of 1943

Written by Glangevlin Admin
Thursday, 17 April 2008 13:20


Fire broke out on the night of the 23rd February 1943 resulting in the deaths of 36 people, 35 children and 1 elderly lady (lay worker). Many questions were raised about the actions of the nuns in charge on that faithful night.

http://www.glangevlin.com/index.php/his ... -orphanage

[Kev408]

This terrible tragedy has all but been forgotten now:


Cavan Orphanage Fire Of 1943

Written by Glangevlin Admin
Thursday, 17 April 2008 13:20


Fire broke out on the night of the 23rd February 1943 resulting in the deaths of 36 people, 35 children and 1 elderly lady (lay worker). Many questions were raised about the actions of the nuns in charge on that faithful night.

http://www.glangevlin.com/index.php/his ... -orphanage

Can't believe I forgot that tragedy. That's why listing hierarchies of incident-fatalities is unadvised! There was a tribunal set up to investigate this 'unspeakable tragedy' and it was realised that Cavan simply had no local authority fire service (despite the 1940 Fire Brigades Act). Furthermore, there were AFS (Auxiliary Fire Service) crews available but they were not called out to peacetime fires! Major Comerford made several recommendations to enhance the effectiveness of the 1940 Act - not one was enacted. (From Geraghty's and Whitehead's 'The Dublin Fire Brigade', 2004).

[Eternal Optimist]

He is populist historian. Enough said.

His Judging Dev is not a serious examination of the period or the man - Tim Pat Coogan has more creditability on the subject matter. Also the quantity of photographs and copies of documents in the work should alert you to his competencies, or lack of them. The book is populist hogwash.

[walrusgumble]

the judging dev book was the biggest waste of money ! really disappointed, hopeless book, there was damn all in it that was not already publicily known or discussed in writing or debates.